and what about all the Italians cast as Indians in all those classic Westerns? Need I mention Breakfast at Tiffany’s?

and let’s not forget the Asian melting pot family on Margaret Cho’s sitcom, All American Girl. When that was on, I was working with a pair of Chinese and Philippine co-workers. the latter of whom I still see occasionally. She married a white guy, I went to school with both her sons, but back then their Irish last name was a disconnect for me with their obvious ethnicity. Anyway, all three of us watched the show and they had some trouble watching it because of the “mixed” family of actors posing as Koreans. I had to agree, but pointed out the limited pool of talent they had to work with in Hollywood. (plus the fact HollyWhitey won’t see them as Koreans, just ‘Asians’.)

I feel that as long as companies need to have a “diversity campaign” then nothing will really be authentic and the problem will continue to persist.

It’s something that needs to be natural, rather than forced, which is how it feels all too often. When Hasbro released their updated version of Spirit last year, they missed a great opportunity to tweak his appearance and background and make him into a more authentic character. He wouldn’t have been the first character to be changed for the new line, and it would have really done him some good.

The only way to change it is to have actual minorities in charge instead of white males who think they know how you write black people or Asian women, etc.

I think some writers do a much better job than others. There’s nothing “token” about Static, for example, when written by Matt Wayne (The Brave and The Bold #24 out yesterday). Of course, he got started with that at Milestone, where someone other than a white guy was in charge. A great writer is a great writer, though. Common ethnicity or gender with a character can be an advantage, but it isn’t an absolute necessity. There aren’t many in the business better at writing strong female characters than Gail Simone, but Joss Whedon is pretty damn good at it. Again, it comes down to whether something is natural or forced. Any writer who goes into a story, or even a page, thinking, “I need to make sure Character A comes across as black here,” or, “I have to make Character B feminine there,” is going to fail.

Take for example The All-New Atom. Asian writer? Nope. Ryan Choi, who is supposed to be Chinese but is designed off Korean American actor Daniel De Kim… Some may say who cares, but this seemingly innocent or mistaken ethnicity pretty much just perpetuates and sustains the common stereotype that all Asians look a like.

Great point. That’s exactly how I interpreted Paramount’s casting of a Korean actor to portray Storm Shadow in The Rise Of Cobra. Like, “Korean, Japanese, what’s the difference? No one will notice.” Many Japanese fans of the property noticed, of course, and were understandably offended.

I, for one, would rather argue for diversity even if some may think it’s some liberal whack-job cause, because to argue AGINST it means you’re pretty much supporting the status quo and white supremacy. Even if you don’t care if you have diversity in your action figure collection, there’s no reason to argue against it. Times have changed. America is a melting pot society, deal with it.

Hear, hear.

The problem lies with this fact (and the same can be said for action figures). People always try to argue that it’s about the bottom line when in reality it is about the crappiness of these ethnic characters in comics (black firesotrm, huh?) or action figure (Jitsu, really?) and people’s own internalized racist beliefs. Despite what some would say, race is still VERY important in America and plays itself out through many social relations that foster discriminatory and prejudicial actions.

The shaping of America’s unique racial and ethnic reality is linked to the historic and continuation of racial-ethnic discrimination. And to quote Walter Allen, “fundamental aspect of American experience has involved commitment to, embrace of, and engagement with the philosophy of White Supremacy.”

Personally I don’t think Black Lightening is all that good nor do I think GI Joes really broke any ethic barriers with their stereotypical figures. I feel that as long as companies need to have a “diversity campaign” then nothing will really be authentic and the problem will continue to persist (Mcfarlane’s military line comes to mind that succeed). The only way to change it is to have actual minorities in charge instead of white males who think they know how you write black people or Asian women, etc.

Take for example The All-New Atom. Asian writer? Nope. Ryan Choi, who is supposed to be Chinese but is designed off Korean American actor Daniel De Kim… Some may say who cares, but this seemingly innocent or mistaken ethnicity pretty much just perpetuates and sustains the common stereotype that all Asians look a like. How is this a problem? Well, in 1989, white autoworkers from Detroit clubbed to death Chinese American Victor Chin, thinking he was Japanese.

I, for one, would rather argue for diversity even if some may think it’s some liberal whack-job cause, because to argue AGINST it means you’re pretty much supporting the status quo and white supremacy. Even if you don’t care if you have diversity in your action figure collection, there’s no reason to argue against it. Times have changed. America is a melting pot society, deal with it.

If DC put out a monthly comic book on Black Lightening would it sell enough to be profitable? No, probably not. Then logically one must look at why? And the “why” tells the tale. There is not enough people buying the book, plain and simple. This is for two reasons. (1) Not as many black people buy comics demographically to keep a “Black Lightening” type book afloat (2) white males can’t/don’t want to relate to that character, and shouldn’t have to.. or buy a book they don’t “dig”. Both are true, and neither situation provides reason to cast blame upon any industry for lack of incorporating diversity.

So, at the end of the day, who cares, and get over it. Champion some other lofty ideal that can better change the world for all races.. such as controlling how much cows fart.

Ha, complaints about my attitude from the guy with the biggest chip on his shoulder on this site? Amusing to say the least.

Oh, I didn’t realize you had some kind of personal grudge here. In that case, you’ll need to find some other uninteresting way of spending your time. The suggestion that I’m harboring “racist opinions” because you saw someone wearing a t-shirt you didn’t like is almost as ridiculous as the “guess” in your earlier post.

Point me towards an article about Natives and toys and I’d be more interested.

Frankly, whether or not you are interested doesn’t interest me, especially if you can’t be bothered to find out how other people feel might about this sort of thing.

I can only speak for myself, but my guess is that this sort of thing is more of a concern for white people.

I’m always amused by people who follow, “I can only speak for myself,” with an attempt to speak for others. Did you bother reading the interview on Collectors’ Quest? Try checking out the forums on BlackSuperhero.com, or even just listening to this NPR piece that includes an interview with the guy who runs the site, and then say, “this sort of thing is more of a concern for white people.” That couldn’t be further from the truth.

And yes, G.I. Joe Special Missions #2 is THE best issue from that series and one of my favorite G.I. Joe comics ever. It has everything you could want in a stand-alone adventure. Larry Hama really did his homework on that one.

Reading this article, it is very obvious that you are a G.I. Joe fan and collector.

I’m an action figure collector; G.I. JOE is just one of the lines I enjoy as part of my hobby. I also collect STAR WARS, DC Direct, Justice League Unlimited, Marvel Universe, Hellboy, Blade, and figures from various other movies, television shows, comic books, and animation, along with anything else I happen to find appealing while I’m out shopping. I have toys from Transformers, Sin City, Spawn, The Big Lebowski, The Dark Knight, Iron Man, 24, Terminator, and Hanna-Barbera cartoons.

It’s not fair though to omit characters from other lines because you thought they were poorly executed, like Samurai or Jitsu. Like it or not, they were minority figures and were produced. You can make the argument that they were based on racial stereotypes and I doubt anyone would disagree with you on that point, but when discussing this topic, it’s unfair to omit them all together.

I ignored Samurai because he’s a ridiculous character, and I wasn’t looking to make stereotypes the focus of what I was writing. As for Jitsu, when the producers of the He-Man cartoon didn’t even feel comfortable using him in their show, what more can be said on the matter?

Which ever way you stand on Rio Blast, that still means a third of the actual human characters were minorities. That’s actually a pretty decent perecentage.

But that completely avoids the point I made about the line in the first place, that it wasn’t until the seventh (and final) year (sixth series) that the first (and only) black character was introduced. I didn’t go into other ethnicities, percentages, or anything else that’s being used to make excuses for that. I commented on the fact that for six years, this was a “fantasy world” devoid of black people. Whose “fantasy” is that?

As far as the Marvel and DC heroes go, I have to agree with Stewbacca there. At that age, I didn’t know who the X-men were let alone Tyroc or John Stewart.

And did you know who Kang was? What about Cyclotron?

My first exposure to a lot of charcters like Dr. Fate and Martian Manhunter were their Super Powers figures. I can still remember seeing the Secret Wars figures and wondering who Wolverine was

Exactly. Your personal level of familiarity with comic book characters was not a barometer of whether or not they should be included in a line of action figures, as evidenced by the fact that you learned who they were after being exposed to them through the toy line. Plenty of kids knew who the X-Men were; I did, and I had just a passing interest in superhero comics until Crisis On Infinite Earths. For those who didn’t, though, what a great opportunity to introduce youngsters to Luke Cage, Storm, Jean Grey, and Black Panther. The same goes for John Stewart and Tyroc, not to mention Supergirl, Batgirl, Black Canary, and any other number of female characters that were left out for the likes of Golden Pharaoh and Cyclotron. There’s really no good reason that The Super Powers Collection only had one female in the entire line.

It’s difficult to lump all these lines in the same category. Obviously, G.I. Joe, being based on the real world would have more minority charcters produced than say Star Wars or Masters of the Universe. As stated, Star Wars was based on the movie and aimed at children. When I was 8 years old I had no desire for a Mon Mothma figure. I wanted to play with the main characters, lots of aliens, and lots of droids. I barely touched any of the random pilots, bespin gaurds, etc…

Masters of the Universe actually did a really good job with diversity when you look at the line as a whole. The whole line is based on a fantasy world that is shared between humans and many many other races. There were really only 15 individual characters produced that could be considered human, and in some cases (like Zodak) that’s really a stretch. Out of those 15, 2 are white females (Teela and Sorceress), One is black (Clamp Champ), 2 are asian (Jitsu and Ninjor), and one is kind of ambiguous but could be intended to be hispanic (Rio Blast). That leaves only 9 white males (He-Man, Man-At-Arms, Ram Man, Triclops, Mekanek, King Randor, Man-E-Faces, Fisto, and if you count him, Zodak) Which ever way you stand on Rio Blast, that still means a third of the actual human characters were minorities. That’s actually a pretty decent perecentage.

As far as the Marvel and DC heroes go, I have to agree with Stewbacca there. At that age, I didn’t know who the X-men were let alone Tyroc or John Stewart. The characters I knew came from the Saturday morning cartoons mostly, and I was a big comic book fan. I just read the characters I knew from TV. Superman, Batman, Spider-man, the Hulk, etc… It wasnt until I was much older that I realized Samurai wasnt really a part of the Justice League or that there was more than one Green Lantern. My first exposure to a lot of charcters like Dr. Fate and Martian Manhunter were their Super Powers figures. I can still remember seeing the Secret Wars figures and wondering who Wolverine was.

But I think Blaming kenner for star wars is absurd

Which is precisely why I said all the blame cannot be placed on them.

If you were white you wanted to be Han Solo- if you were Black you wanted to be Lando– simple enough-

Simple enough for you, maybe, but try reading the interview I linked.

Even as I moved to another elementary school they only toy lines my black friends liked were transformers..

Gee, I wonder why that could be.

When 98% of a movie, comic book or cartoon is white male characters- you cant blame the toy company for that-

But that’s exactly when it’s incumbent upon the toy company to put some effort into the character selection. What’s the point of inventing a ridiculous character like Golden Pharaoh when Tyroc and John Stewart are available?

as a kid growing up in that time– other than the ethnic superfriends cartoon characters (I didnt know of any others)- and the only other unmade female DC villans/heroes I knew about were catwoman, super girl and Black Canary

But you weren’t getting paid to create a toy line based on DC characters, so what you did or didn’t know is irrelevant.

and the women list pretty much ended at Invisible Girl and Firestar (well other than Aunt May)

Huh? Storm? Kitty Pride? Jean Grey? Rogue? Mystique?

Did I really need a Grizz Frix figure as a kid, hell he didnt even have a name until Decipher-i would have rather had a porkins or a wedge– they gave us a generic pilot and thats the way it was done– did you really thing they would spend a line that released about 20 figures a year and make a Fozec figure- just to add another ethnic character into the group–.
If you were white you wanted to be Han Solo- if you were Black you wanted to be Lando– simple enough-I dont see a kid wanting to be an A-Wing pilot that dies 2 seconds into his apperance.

And personally I feel they were aiming at their target demographic– In My elementary school I was one of only 2 white boys among 3 first and second grade classes (rougly 90 boys)- and we were the only ones into star wars– the black and hispanic children were not–maybe its because they didnt have a figure that looked like them (but I doubt it)-
When 98% of a movie, comic book or cartoon is white male characters- you cant blame the toy company for that- (although Hasbro is the exception with the G.I. Joe line), Even as I moved to another elementary school they only toy lines my black friends liked were transformers..

Even with your super powers stuff- as a kid growing up in that time– other than the ethnic superfriends cartoon characters (I didnt know of any others)- and the only other unmade female DC villans/heroes I knew about were catwoman, super girl and Black Canary (and I only knew about her becuase of one panel in one of those same super powers mini comics.)

Marvel the same way- although there was no excuse for no Black Panther- other than Power Man at the time I would have been hard pressed to name another black character- and the women list pretty much ended at Invisible Girl and Firestar (well other than Aunt May)

“The fact is that no one will ever know exactly who would have made the cut in a fourth wave, and the line is what it is at the end of the three that made it into production.”

Where’s Jason Geyer when you need him.

Peace,

Chip

Is it odd to anyone else that Jinx is the only NON-Anglo female character?

That’s why I mentioned Mattel including Vixen, Fire, and Amanda Waller in their JLU line. It’s not often that a non-white female character makes it into action figure form. Helix is brand new; hasn’t even be released yet. And yes, Vypra was released in ’98, but I only covered the first ten years of the line. As for Stretcher, he was another medic, but he was released before Doc’s death in the Marvel series.

Yes, anyone can convert, and be fully considered a Jew. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t an ethnic group.

And really, where ARE the female characters for the Marvel Universe line? Kitty Pride, Emma Frost, Jubilee, Rogue, Jean Grey…that’s just the tip of the iceberg for one major Marvel team. Here’s hoping they get on the ball.