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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:20 pm 
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Some of my favorite lines are Superhero Squad, Galactic Heroes and Action League. So articulation obviously wouldn't be necessary for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Kev, I agree with you completely. I collected 85% of the Galactic Heroes and Indiana Jones Adventure Heroes guys, and I'm on the lookout for the other 5%. (I say 5% because I don't consider repaints or "new" sculpts of an existing character (with the exact same costume and weapons) something I need to pick up.) Some of them aren't articulated at all. And that's a-okay with me. They're amazing, and a great value.

I think that the next Star Trek line (if there ever is one...) should emulate the TMP or Galoob line. The smart money says Target and Wal-Mart won't touch it. So, go full retro, but NOT Retro Cloth. Vintage style packaging. Market it to collectors, and sculpt 3 uniform bodies (average, tall, and female) that all the characters can use. Articulation at the head, arms and hips. MAYBE the knees. Include 2 characters in each package, and charge $15-$20. Or, a boxed set of 7 or 8 for $50.

The thing is, with the designer toy movement of the past ten years, it would probably be possible to do a super-limited production run of good quality bootlegs...


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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:26 am 
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The most joints I would try to put on a 1/18 scale figure is 8.

Neck-swivel or ball
Shoulders-swivel or ball
waist-swivel
Hips-swivel
Knees-hinge

This gives you the basic range of movement for vehicles and playsets without compromising structure.

For larger figures like Shellhead mentioned the uber articulation is fine because it is not economically practical to make vehicles or playsets for them anyway.

CCC.

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:27 am 
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No elbows? Really? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:37 am 
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Shellhead wrote:
No elbows? Really? :shock:


At that scale they start to become too fragile, especially if you are shoving them in and out of vehicles. When sitting they can have their arms down or out on a console. This also means just one piece to mold.

CCC.

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:04 pm 
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I have collected almost exclusively 1:18th scale in my collection (with a few exceptions) and I have to say I have BARELY EVER had a problem with Elbows and articulation being fragile. Knees, yes rarely (and useually only on cheaper figs), Shoulder, yes more common than knees, Hips-Loads, most common issues I have ever had. Feet and Wrists, yes not as common as hips but common enough. They only time elbows ever became an issue were the GI Joe Funskool India figures (often the rivit wasn't pushed all the way through) and once with my Original Joes one elbow cracked apart.

But construction and quality have improved greatly in the past 20 years as well, in the modern era (post 2000) I have never had a single elbow problem with any line that I recall, however hips are another story, those seem to be a huge issue with 1:18th scale figs (but not to the point I would call it a flaw for the scale, but enough that if you asked me which joint was the most problematic I would have to say hips).

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:08 pm 
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What gets me is when people get too into detail on smaller action figures. On other forums I frequent I have to hear arguments about why the Stealth Cyberman doesn't have laces on his boots as opposed to just reusing the Earthshock Cyberman boots. I'm all for screen accuracy but sometimes I feel it gets taken too far. If you want that much detail buy a statue! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:44 pm 
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zedhatch wrote:
I have collected almost exclusively 1:18th scale in my collection (with a few exceptions) and I have to say I have BARELY EVER had a problem with Elbows and articulation being fragile. Knees, yes rarely (and useually only on cheaper figs), Shoulder, yes more common than knees, Hips-Loads, most common issues I have ever had. Feet and Wrists, yes not as common as hips but common enough. They only time elbows ever became an issue were the GI Joe Funskool India figures (often the rivit wasn't pushed all the way through) and once with my Original Joes one elbow cracked apart.

But construction and quality have improved greatly in the past 20 years as well, in the modern era (post 2000) I have never had a single elbow problem with any line that I recall, however hips are another story, those seem to be a huge issue with 1:18th scale figs (but not to the point I would call it a flaw for the scale, but enough that if you asked me which joint was the most problematic I would have to say hips).


My experience with Joes is limited, but the biggest problem I ever had there was the rubber band. The elbows there and with the ERTL Trek were metal rivets. In current lines I am looking at the movie Trek Playmates and Hasbro's MU. Those are NOT metal rivet joints, and so are more fragile. I would love to see Hasbro do ERTL style Trek.

CCC.

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:21 pm 
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LordMudd wrote:
My experience with Joes is limited, but the biggest problem I ever had there was the rubber band. The elbows there and with the ERTL Trek were metal rivets. In current lines I am looking at the movie Trek Playmates and Hasbro's MU. Those are NOT metal rivet joints, and so are more fragile. I would love to see Hasbro do ERTL style Trek.

CCC.


Trek movie figs were (to be blunt) crap overall, but still not seen the fagility issues you mean, MU is better quality than those and again not seeing it. If anything the metal was causing much of the few problems I have experenced. being metal did not make them stronger (especially in the cases of India's GI Joes, not by a long shot). It seems counter intuititve, but you can also make armor out of paper that is nearly as strong as metal (thank you Mythbusters LOL).

Again, just not seeing how less problems equates to "more fragile" They might be but I am definatly not seeing the same issues which implies a better construction and strength. The fact is that I have collected since 1975 and again almost exclusively 1:18th, but again the elbows have been the least problems I have had, I even would dare say I had more problems out of vintage SW heads than elbows over the years.

O-Rings are easily replaced (they sell the exact same ones in joes at most hardware stores in the plumbing section to this day) and the constuction allowed for a very simple fix. Even then the wear on those takes decades most times.

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:53 pm 
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I am far from an expert on action figures, I would guess I have less than ten AFi's in my whole collection of over a hundred dolls but in my mind, an action figure is an action figure because of it's 'action' poses which would be difficult to achieve without the p.o.a.

Quote:
if the joints are done "right" than there is nothing wrong with a multi-jointed, nigh-infinitly posable figure.

I agree with this statement but with nearly everyone in business these days cutting corners the consumer always suffers.

I don't suppose it's as important if you keep your figures boxed up as I assume alot of you do but I for one like to actually 'play' with my dolls and figures and I have had to do at least one re-constructive operation using needle nose pliers, a red hot sewing needle and elastic, luckily it was just a cheap cy/zc? doll but it's the principle.

I 'love' the realistic head sculpts!


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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:22 am 
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I believe that poseability/POA and scale are relative. The bigger it is, the more joints it can support. Star Wars proved that megaPOA are not a requirement to succeed at small scale, and I believe that the larger scale figures should have more POA because they can.

CCC.

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:15 pm 
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LordMudd wrote:
I Star Wars proved that megaPOA are not a requirement to succeed at small scale,.

CCC.

Spend 10 minutes on the Rebelscum boards and you wont believe that statement-- every other post is how HASBLO is cheating everyone by not putting 16-18 POA on every single figure-- (even droids that arent supposed to move like that-- or senators with giant clothes)

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:40 pm 
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stewbacca wrote:
LordMudd wrote:
I Star Wars proved that megaPOA are not a requirement to succeed at small scale,.

CCC.

Spend 10 minutes on the Rebelscum boards and you wont believe that statement-- every other post is how HASBLO is cheating everyone by not putting 16-18 POA on every single figure-- (even droids that arent supposed to move like that-- or senators with giant clothes)


Well, my favorite Trek figures are my 5 POA Megos. The only change I would make is knee joints like the Galoob figures. That is all they NEED to have at that scale.

CCC.

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:19 pm 
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stewbacca wrote:
LordMudd wrote:
I Star Wars proved that megaPOA are not a requirement to succeed at small scale,.

CCC.

Spend 10 minutes on the Rebelscum boards and you wont believe that statement-- every other post is how HASBLO is cheating everyone by not putting 16-18 POA on every single figure-- (even droids that arent supposed to move like that-- or senators with giant clothes)


Forgive me if someone has already made this point but the Star Wars line consistently proves you can have "realism," many POAs, and fun in largely good quality toys. Collect the recent Vintage collection line or even Clone Wars (they emulate the show's style pretty well) and you might feel differently. That vintage Bespin Luke is one of the best action figures made in the scale if you ask me. And not fragile. I'd say the biggest issue is that the figures can be too rubbery at times. Vintage General Grievous for instance. His legs should be of much firmer plastic. He just warps slowly as he stands on your shelf. But by and large, I'd say Hasbro produces the best 3.75" scale toys that happen to be lots of fun too. We still even get playsets for crying out loud! Yeah, they have to double as vehicles for them to even try but, still! Not many lines can support that like Star Wars. Play with the big AT-AT or Falcon with those figures and tell me they're not as fun, if not more so than the sets we had as a kid. I love them!

I just don't think Hasbro puts in the same effort on other lines (for obvious reasons). MU doesn't compare at all. Outside of the recent SDCC exclusive set which rocked, I don't even think their Indiana Jones figures compared. I think the new Thundercats figures from Bandai strike a good balance. Their other offerings have been similar too.

So I don't necessarily think the point is all fair. Unless we're talking about the collector focused lines. Some of which are pure statues and others gives us tons of play value but nothing to play with because they're often too big!

Not that I play with my toys, mind you. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Realism has ruined the fun
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:24 pm 
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I love lots of articulation also. I just started collecting and I tend to gravitate toward figures w/ lots of joints. Marvel Legends are awesome. I like posing them differently all the time and the little things like moving fingers and toes and such add to the fun. At the 3 3/4" scale one can only ask for so much and not all figures need to be articulated the same way. A good example of this is the new Vintage Collection Luke Skywalker's wrist. Instead of rotating around it's hinged to move up and down so that he can point his lightsaber at his foe while fully extending his arm also. I thought that was the coolest thing. The new 6" Lion-O does the same thing to help get him into the 'sight beyond sight' pose.


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