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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:12 am 
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Yes, this isn't Batman from the comics.

It is Batman from Chris Nolan.

And it is very true to what Nolan started.
It still works in that universe. It still all fits and all makes sense. The characters act true to themselves the way the Nolan envisioned it.

And the resolution of it all continues to make sense and carry on Nolan's vision.

There is absolutely room for more but I doubt we will ever see Nolan approach it and I surely don't want another writer/director to pick this up and try.

As a trilogy, I think this is a superb effort. I am so glad I saw them all in the theatre. I am so glad I own them on Blu-Ray.

I think the odd moments that aren't "comic Batman" are the ones that bother me. Not because they are so far off the mark for what has been established in the films, but because they are off the mark of what I would expect.

And that is partly why I love these films so much. They don't give me what I expect. They lead me to a logical conclusion that I should have seen coming, but it is not so obvious as to be ruined before the opening credits roll.

The grounding in "reality" makes a huge difference to me. It is a very fine balancing act to make a comic character believable, and I think Nolan did it very well with all the cast, not just the major players.

I enjoy the nods to the comics, the nods to a world with slightly different rules. I enjoy how it all plays out together and never in a truly linear way.

The movie did get to me. I got emotional (and judging from some of the heavy sighs and labored breathing so did other men in the audience). I ENJOYED watching this film and see everything tie itself off.

Don't pass judgement before you see it. It is worthy of being seen "clean" and "fresh".

But if you aren't a fan of what Nolan has done with the Batverse you probably won't care for this.

Again, this isn't DC's Batman, it is Nolan's Batman, and the two aren't entirely the same.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:00 am 
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No matter a person's vision...establish characters have an essence about them. Something that when changed or altered so far form the point they stop being who they are intended to be. For me, these films are Christian Bale cos playing Batman.

The best thing Nolan ever did was have Batman knock that gun out of Catwoman's hand.

But a lot of this, regardless of the excuses of it being someone's vision. Hell the comics have various visions which are everyone's Batman. Whether you be Loeb, Moench, Adams, Aparro, Miller... just add Nolan to that list and for me, he doesn't know this character. If anything he knows Gotham that's for sure. I appreciate how he makes the city a character unto itself and I like his Gordon but I suspect Gary Oldman has a lot to do with that as well.

I'm glad it's over and that he's gone. I look forward to the next new take on Batman in a few years.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Gary Oldman is definitely one of the best actors in cinema today.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:57 pm 
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John of the Dead wrote:
Am I the only one bothered by the entire premise of this movie? When they establish that Batman quit over his remorse about Rachel, they lost me entirely. That is the exact opposite of the 70+ year characterization of Batman. He is a character defined by unyielding resolve: he will *not* quit. Period.


No, he quit because of the agreement to lie he and Gordon made at the end of Dark Knight. Batman became the villain, Harvey the hero, and that got the Dent Act passed which allowed for the defeat of organized crime in Gotham. The first 20 minutes of the movie establish that Batman wasn't needed because of the acts at the end of Dark Knight. It was peacetime. The Crime rate was almost non-existent. Gordon was uneasy, however, and knew things were brewing. While the pain of losing Rachel ate at him, it wasn't the whole reason. Why would they city need him if the crime rate was so low? It all gave him an excuse to be a recluse.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:31 pm 
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bnjmnrlyr wrote:
Yes, this isn't Batman from the comics.

It is Batman from Chris Nolan.

And it is very true to what Nolan started.
It still works in that universe. It still all fits and all makes sense. The characters act true to themselves the way the Nolan envisioned it.

And the resolution of it all continues to make sense and carry on Nolan's vision.

There is absolutely room for more but I doubt we will ever see Nolan approach it and I surely don't want another writer/director to pick this up and try.

As a trilogy, I think this is a superb effort. I am so glad I saw them all in the theatre. I am so glad I own them on Blu-Ray.

I think the odd moments that aren't "comic Batman" are the ones that bother me. Not because they are so far off the mark for what has been established in the films, but because they are off the mark of what I would expect.

And that is partly why I love these films so much. They don't give me what I expect. They lead me to a logical conclusion that I should have seen coming, but it is not so obvious as to be ruined before the opening credits roll.

The grounding in "reality" makes a huge difference to me. It is a very fine balancing act to make a comic character believable, and I think Nolan did it very well with all the cast, not just the major players.

I enjoy the nods to the comics, the nods to a world with slightly different rules. I enjoy how it all plays out together and never in a truly linear way.

The movie did get to me. I got emotional (and judging from some of the heavy sighs and labored breathing so did other men in the audience). I ENJOYED watching this film and see everything tie itself off.

Don't pass judgement before you see it. It is worthy of being seen "clean" and "fresh".

But if you aren't a fan of what Nolan has done with the Batverse you probably won't care for this.

Again, this isn't DC's Batman, it is Nolan's Batman, and the two aren't entirely the same.


Ditto, I loved these films, but I just look at them as another person's take on the character, just like in the TV shows and comics. I recommend the same thing bnjmnrlyr did, go see it without thinking: "this will rule" or "this will suck" go see it and then decide if you liked it. :)

D.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:28 pm 
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The Dark Knight Rises Opens to $249 Million Worldwide

by SuperHeroHype

July 23, 2012

This was a bittersweet weekend for Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises, the third and final installment of his Batman films, returning Christian Bale to the Caped Crusader's cowl, joined by Michael Caine, Anne Hathaway, Tom Hardy, Gary Oldman, Marion Cotillard, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Morgan Freeman. After the brutal shootings in Aurora, Colorado on Friday, what should have been a fun and exciting weekend of moviegoing turned into a somber and more subdued affair where all movies seemed to be affected.

Following Warner Bros.' lead to be sensitive to the families of the victims, all the major studios decided to hold off on reporting box office estimates throughout the weekend, but today, the studio reports that Nolan's latest brought in $160.9 million from 4,404 theaters. It's the best opening ever for a 2D title, beating The Dark Knight's $158.4 million opening, and the third-biggest debut overall domestically, trailing just Marvel's The Avengers ($207.4 million) and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 ($169.2 million). $19 million of the total came from 332 IMAX theaters the movie is playing in. The Dark Knight Rises, which received a CinemaScore of A, took in $75.5 million on Friday, $44.9 million on Saturday and another $40.2 million on Sunday.

Internationally, The Dark Knight Rises earned $88 million from 17 markets for a worldwide total of $249 million after one weekend. IMAX screens contributed $4.8 million overseas.

With the introduction of another comic-based action movie, Marc Webb's The Amazing Spider-Man (Sony) took a big 68.6% plunge in its third weekend, taking third place with $10.9 million to push its domestic gross to $228.6 million. It also added another $29.8 million overseas to bring its international total to $386 million and its global total to $614 million.

Click here for more of this weekend's box office results.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Anne Hathaway Interested in Catwoman Spin-Off

by SuperHeroHype

July 23, 2012

The Dark Knight Rises has left a lot of people impressed with many different facets of the film. If you ask anyone who has seen the movie about their favorite part, you'll always get a different answer, but there has been a lot of love from fans for Anne Hathaway's portrayal of Selina Kyle. Though the topic hasn't been approached in any official capacity by Warner Bros. Pictures, the idea of a Catwoman spin-off staring Hathaway seems to have a lot of support.

In an interview with Digital Spy, the conversation went in that direction and Hathaway was very enthusiastic about the idea.

"I think it would be lovely to see more of her but only if it's with the right people," Hathaway said. "She lives in this Gotham City and so it would have to be established by the people who have made this Gotham City. For me, at least."


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Bane Co-Creator on His Portrayal in Dark Knight Rises

by SuperHeroHype

July 23, 2012

Though not the newest member of Batman's rogues gallery, Bane is certainly still 'younger' than a lot of the other bad guys in the Batman mythos. Introduced in Batman: Vengeance of Bane in January of 1993, the character was created by co-writers Chuck Dixon, Doug Moench, and artist Graham Nolan so that he could be introduced later on in the comics for the one thing he's always remembered for, breaking the bat.

If you remember the 1997 film Batman & Robin and the portrayal of Bane there (writer Chuck Dixon does), then you know they kind of did it wrong. While talking about the character with Philly.com, the Joel Schumacher film was brought up.

"They had him as almost an imbecile, when in the comics he is extremely smart," Dixon said.

Dixon was much more happy with the way Nolan and Tom Hardy handled the character.

"Apparently, Warner Bros. was pressuring Nolan to use the Riddler, which would have been too similar to the Joker," Dixon continued. "Plus, the Riddler, like the Joker and so many of Batman's villains, is no challenge against him in a mano-a-mano fistfight. Batman will wipe the floor with him in that situation.

“I am beyond glad that Nolan had the juice in Hollywood to stick to his guns," he added. "From interviews I've seen, it's clear he understands the character and he gets what we were going for. It's not exactly what I created, but he's physically imposing and Tom Hardy is one hell of an actor. I can't imagine Bane being better portrayed."


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:10 pm 
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I finally saw it tonight. I thought it was enjoyable, but it was a bit overconvoluted and at least 30 minutes too long.

Spoiler: show
I really liked Catwoman and I thought Bane was decent. Some of the action sequences were topnotch and the ending was suprisingly emotional. I did not like the overall plot, Talia, or Batman. Bale was passable in the second one, but his voice was even worse in this one. Especially since he kept using the fake one when surrounded by people who already knew who he was.


I give it a B. Nowhere near as good as Dark Knight, but it's hard to top the Joker.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:18 am 
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UncleMarsellus wrote:
John of the Dead wrote:
Am I the only one bothered by the entire premise of this movie? When they establish that Batman quit over his remorse about Rachel, they lost me entirely. That is the exact opposite of the 70+ year characterization of Batman. He is a character defined by unyielding resolve: he will *not* quit. Period.


No, he quit because of the agreement to lie he and Gordon made at the end of Dark Knight. Batman became the villain, Harvey the hero, and that got the Dent Act passed which allowed for the defeat of organized crime in Gotham. The first 20 minutes of the movie establish that Batman wasn't needed because of the acts at the end of Dark Knight. It was peacetime. The Crime rate was almost non-existent. Gordon was uneasy, however, and knew things were brewing. While the pain of losing Rachel ate at him, it wasn't the whole reason. Why would they city need him if the crime rate was so low? It all gave him an excuse to be a recluse.


Exactly. If you didn't get that, then you weren't paying attention. They set that up for the first 30 min or so of the film.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:15 am 
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UncleMarsellus wrote:
John of the Dead wrote:
Am I the only one bothered by the entire premise of this movie? When they establish that Batman quit over his remorse about Rachel, they lost me entirely. That is the exact opposite of the 70+ year characterization of Batman. He is a character defined by unyielding resolve: he will *not* quit. Period.


No, he quit because of the agreement to lie he and Gordon made at the end of Dark Knight. Batman became the villain, Harvey the hero, and that got the Dent Act passed which allowed for the defeat of organized crime in Gotham. The first 20 minutes of the movie establish that Batman wasn't needed because of the acts at the end of Dark Knight. It was peacetime. The Crime rate was almost non-existent. Gordon was uneasy, however, and knew things were brewing. While the pain of losing Rachel ate at him, it wasn't the whole reason. Why would they city need him if the crime rate was so low? It all gave him an excuse to be a recluse.


Oh, so there were no more muggers, burglars, rapists, or street-level punks? Horse-puckey! Look, even in a movie about a techno-ninja that cosplays as a Dracula, that stretches credulity too far. Batman's war is against the very concept of crime, not just the organized mob. Nolan apparently doesn't understand that, and that's what infuriates me. There will always be criminals, and (in Batman's mind) there will always be the need for a Batman.

Now, that departure from 70+ years of established character development may not bother you. If not, hey, that's fine. I really wish I could get past it and enjoy the movie, because if it wasn't a Batman movie, it would be great. As it stands, I'm bringing in too much knowledge of how Batman has been portrayed, well, forever, and departure from that core characteristic breaks the movie for me.

And he didn't quit fighting crime to cover up Dent's death. At least, that isn't the implication made at the end of "The Dark Knight." Heck, if he were to just retire right there, then why the speech at the end of "The Dark Knight" about how he would be hunted, because he could take it? Well, apparently he can't take it, and hung up the cape. And besides, Bruce himself explicitly says that he's locked himself away because of Rachel. "Without her, the city has nothing to offer me," or somesuch.

So yeah, you could have still told almost this exact same story, but without disregarding what makes Batman Batman. If the crime rate is so low in Gotham, have him move from city to city taking out their mobs. Heck, that's a better explanation for why Bane is able to spend 8 years building infrastructure in Gotham than Bruce getting a sad and quitting.

j1h15233 wrote:
Exactly. If you didn't get that, then you weren't paying attention. They set that up for the first 30 min or so of the film.


Nice. The guy who apparently didn't hear Bruce Wayne's own explanation for why he's a recluse, stating explicitly that it's because of Rachel, excoriating someone else for not paying attention. :)

Look, folks, if you loved it, then I'm very happy for you. You're able to accept Nolan's version of the character on Nolan's terms, which is really what's required. But for me personally, he deviated too far from what I've read of the character for years, and I'm not able to get past that. Don't accuse me of not paying attention, or missing some key plot detail, or some other condescending snark. I have a fundamental disagreement with the filmmaker about the character of Batman, and insulting me about my ability to watch the movie isn't going to change that. Sometimes opinions differ, and insulting someone over their opinion is unlikely to alter that opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:44 am 
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John of the Dead wrote:

Oh, so there were no more muggers, burglars, rapists, or street-level punks? Horse-puckey! Look, even in a movie about a techno-ninja that cosplays as a Dracula, that stretches credulity too far. Batman's war is against the very concept of crime, not just the organized mob. Nolan apparently doesn't understand that, and that's what infuriates me. There will always be criminals, and (in Batman's mind) there will always be the need for a Batman.

Now, that departure from 70+ years of established character development may not bother you. If not, hey, that's fine. I really wish I could get past it and enjoy the movie, because if it wasn't a Batman movie, it would be great. As it stands, I'm bringing in too much knowledge of how Batman has been portrayed, well, forever, and departure from that core characteristic breaks the movie for me.

And he didn't quit fighting crime to cover up Dent's death. At least, that isn't the implication made at the end of "The Dark Knight." Heck, if he were to just retire right there, then why the speech at the end of "The Dark Knight" about how he would be hunted, because he could take it? Well, apparently he can't take it, and hung up the cape. And besides, Bruce himself explicitly says that he's locked himself away because of Rachel. "Without her, the city has nothing to offer me," or somesuch.

So yeah, you could have still told almost this exact same story, but without disregarding what makes Batman Batman. If the crime rate is so low in Gotham, have him move from city to city taking out their mobs. Heck, that's a better explanation for why Bane is able to spend 8 years building infrastructure in Gotham than Bruce getting a sad and quitting.


In Nolan's cinematic Batman universe, it was well established from the beginning that Bruce was fighting for a day when Batman would not be needed. It was a key part of his journey. Sorry you missed that.

I'm not going to say whether you're right or wrong. You're entitled to your opinion. I personally believe the Nolan's and Goyer were extremely faithful to the spirit of the character and his world and presented their cinematic adaptation of it. I see a lot of Batman: Year One, O'Neill's The Man who Falls Secret Origins story, Cooke's Selina's Big Score and even Ego, Long Halloween, Knightfall, Dark Knight Returns, and others that were clearly inspirations in part for what I consider to be a transcendent adaptation of the character. But that's just me.

I'm not one that expects the literal. Nolan was extremely respectful. I know how adapations work.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:17 am 
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Shellhead wrote:
I finally saw it tonight. I thought it was enjoyable, but it was a bit overconvoluted and at least 30 minutes too long.

Spoiler: show
Bale was passable in the second one, but his voice was even worse in this one. Especially since he kept using the fake one when surrounded by people who already knew who he was.


I give it a B. Nowhere near as good as Dark Knight, but it's hard to top the Joker.


I think Nolan made a choice to treat Batman and Bruce Wayne as two separate personas and to keep that consistent. That's why Bale always had the voice when he had the mask on. He did the same in Dark Knight when speaking Lucious during the big sonar computer scene. You can infer that as a character it's the same for Bruce. He always refers to Batman in the third person.

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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:58 am 
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I think the problem so many have with the voice is that they grew up with Kevin Conroy's Batman. Which isn't a bad thing, I was in my mid 20's when those shows started. Unfortunately though, he set a pretty high bar with the way he could flip back and forth between his characters. I've honestly never had a problem with Bale's performance or the growl. I would think that one of the things Bruce studied before becoming Batman was voice control/manipulation. I haven't read to far into this thread, since I haven't seen it. But I think I'm going to watch Begins and TDK before I go to see the movie. That way everything is a bit fresher in my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Knight Rises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am 
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Well I loved it, so I guess I can accept a different characterization of Batman. The way I looked at it, he cleaned up Gotham, took the fall to do so, and went away to keep the psychos from coming out against him. When he was needed again, he came back.


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