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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:32 am 
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j1h15233 wrote:
There's no reason not to stick with JLU. We followed that animated universe for 10 years. We saw Batman and Superman on their own, along with their proteges, allies and enemies. Then we saw the future of that universe with Beyond, and then we went back and saw all the greatest heroes the DC Universe has to offer in this same animated universe. Explain to me how Young Justice has surpassed that in a season and a half. Was it by introducing 200 characters and fleshing out 6 of them for more than 5 seconds? It's a great series and if they build on this universe for the next decade then I'll consider changing my mind. Until then, I'll enjoy having a semblance of the old DC Universe around somewhere for all of us to watch.



It doesn't matter how long something ran, when making an assessment of it. I was married to my first wife for 11 years. When I met my current wife, I knew within 5 minutes that she was way better than what I had before. :lol: Granted, that's not the best analogous comparison, but you get the gist.
I really loved JLU. But all the years of continuity with STAS, BTAS, Batman Beyond, JL and finally JLU, don't make it a better show. It just makes it a more established property. How many great shows have been canceled prematurely, when other garbage shows go on for years? I'm not saying JLU wasn't great, because it was. I'm just saying that the premise of your argument is extremely flawed. If a writer writes just one phenomenal, critically acclaimed novel and never writes again, does that make his book less significant than that of someone who cranks out 2 or 3 books a year?

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:10 am 
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You know, I think I'll just stay out of this thread from now on. I'm tired of pointless arguments around the internet. Young Justice is the greatest show ever put on tv. Everyone happy now? :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Really? I've always given you credit for your unabashed way of speaking your mind. The minute I give you a legitimate debate, you act like you've been slighted somehow. You're entitled to your opinion. I just don't always have to agree with it. We can still interact peacefully without agreeing on everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Hey, I've got a novel idea. Why don't we keep talk onto Young Justice and not JLU. This is the YJ thread......

That being said, here is me putting on my hypocrite hat: I have followed the TimmDiniverse since the beginning. I'd wager that a portion of you were in diapers when it first came out (not that makes my opinion superior mind you). I still hold that BTAS is still a better show all in all than all of the subsequent shows so far. I loved STAS, Beyond, Justice League, and I adored JLU. Now this is my opinion: Young Justice is a significantly better show than JL and JLU in many ways. 1.The animation is DTV quality every episode. It has to be an extremely expensive show to produce animation wise and while you may like the Timm designs better, you can not argue JLU had better animation. Being an animator, I will just have to over rule. It isn't a matter of taste as much as just a statement of fact about the animation quality. Animation quality just isn't as subjective as style. 2. Overall the writing is superior to JLU. Now, I think JLU has way more Classic episodes. Ones you will remember for years and years. My single favorite DC animated episode is still Task Force X and that doesn't seem like it will change anytime soon. 3. As much as I liked the longer range story arcs in JL and JLU, I think as far as suspense, YJ has them both beat. I am way more on the edge of my seat with this series than I was with the Cadmus and LOD story arcs.

A few things that JLU (and the larger timmverse) has over YJ: 1. Way more character development. But, the Timmverse does have over 20 years of time to shape the world that they created, so that isn't really a fair comparison to a show that is only a season and a half in. 2. The Villains. The Timmverse always did an incomparable job of making their villains at least as real and 3 dimensional as their heroes... and usually more so. Lex Luthor in my opinion is still one of the most wholly developed villains ever put to an animation cel (this is also largely due to Clancy Brown as well). 3. Voice cast. Andrea Romano is the undisputed queen on choosing the right voice for the job. The timmverse as a whole had one of the most incredible cast of voice actors ever. Bull Shannon as Two Face? Who would have even thought of that. Two face is still one of my favorite voiced villains in the series.

Well, that is my two cents. Take it as you want. I love both shows YJ and JLU, but for different reasons, and I don't think they diminish each other. In fact I think they compliment each other. With out BTAS, BB, STAS, JL, and JLU, we wouldn't have any of the DCU dvds or this new wonderful show. So, I think it is time to take off the boxing gloves, YJ should enjoy the time they have (as we know, studios love to shut down good shows in their prime), and JLU fans should accept the fact that the show is gone, and now a classic. Don't let the competition ruin what might be an entertaining 1/2 hour.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:43 pm 
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j1h15233 wrote:
You know, I think I'll just stay out of this thread from now on. I'm tired of pointless arguments around the internet. Young Justice is the greatest show ever put on tv. Everyone happy now? :roll:

They are just egging you on in order to get a rise out of you. We both know that Hawkgirl's betrayal got foreshadowed. It's just that at the time, we didn’t know what those inconsistencies meant (see Twilight.) Besides, the same trick was pulled in the Teen Titans cartoon when Robin became Slade's Apprentice; and reciprocated when Terra joined the Titans. Simply put, the spy/traitor dynamic is not new.

As for those of you with an axe to grind... I do like Young Justice. So I’m not advocating that one show is better than the other. To each their own. But I also can’t deny that every episode has a little something that feels “hammered in”, and at the end of the day, doesn’t make much sense.

Last week’s head scratching moment:
Spoiler: show
Cheshire & Speedy storm Castlevania with a baby on board. And from the looks of things, this great moment in superhero parenting history was literally done for the novelty of a laugh. Me thinks that a Babysitter’s inappropriate phone call would’ve done the trick just the same. And without the need to drag Speedy’s parenting skills through the mud.

This week’s head scratching moment:
Spoiler: show
How Artemis managed to stop her heart beat and fake brain death in order to fool Superboy and Miss Martian. An incredible feat that puts Superman’s Kryptonian Trance to shame. Either that, or I greatly underestimated what the Dark Side of the Force is capable of.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:21 pm 
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red Ricky wrote:
This week’s head scratching moment:
Spoiler: show
How Artemis managed to stop her heart beat and fake brain death in order to fool Superboy and Miss Martian. An incredible feat that puts Superman’s Kryptonian Trance to shame. Either that, or I greatly underestimated what the Dark Side of the Force is capable of.


As for your first head scratching moment :
Spoiler: show
It was funny. Lighten up. Considering what Sportsmaster did to Chesire and Artemis, I'm not suprised that Chesire brought lian along. Again, lighten up, it was funny and pretty accurate to Chesire's developed character.


Not really a head scratching moment.....
Spoiler: show
they live in a world where Martians and Kryptonians exist. It has been a well established plot device in 'many' different mediums. A drug that slows everything, a device to block telepathy. It just looks to me like you are nitpicking faults. Heck, I'm glad that didn't waste time explaining every little thing.


And no, they aren't egging him on. He just has a bit of a chip on his shoulder about JLU that compels him to come into the YJ thread and harp on how great JLU is. See my post above. If somebody thinks that YJ is the greatest DC show that is their opinion. But hijacking another shows thread just to say another show is better is a bit annoying. Why don't we drop the JLU talk and actually talk about YJ... you know, the thread we are in. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:06 pm 
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MOD - my connection is a little slow, or I would be deleting all the JLU commentary posts in the past 2 pages. If you want to talk JLU, revive an old thread. This is for discussing YJ, not comparing the two shows. Now back to YJ.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:51 am 
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Veil1 wrote:
As for your first head scratching moment :
Spoiler: show
It was funny. Lighten up. Considering what Sportsmaster did to Chesire and Artemis, I'm not suprised that Chesire brought lian along. Again, lighten up, it was funny and pretty accurate to Chesire's developed character.

Cheesy and made my eyes roll. Suspension of disbelief only works to a point, and I'm still trying to process the Dark Knight of Gotham leaving his city in order to clear his name in a long and lengthy "mock space trial." And yes, I understand that the whole thing is just a plot device meant to justify leaving "the kids" in charge; but come on. In all my years of reading comics and watching cartoons, I've never known Batman to be happy with Space Field Trips; and/or the postponement of his War on Crime.

(Then again, for all I know, Gotham is now the safest city in all of America! Yup. Babs, Tim & Dick have it all under control. No orphaned kids on their watch!) :twisted:

Veil1 wrote:
Not really a head scratching moment.....
Spoiler: show
they live in a world where Martians and Kryptonians exist. It has been a well established plot device in 'many' different mediums. A drug that slows everything, a device to block telepathy. It just looks to me like you are nitpicking faults. Heck, I'm glad that didn't waste time explaining every little thing.

As far as I'm concerned, it's textbook bad writing, i.e. "deus ex machina", a.k.a. "a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

And considering how big of a plot point the whole thing is/will be... not explaining the trick, is the second cop out. Then again, I don't blame them on account that it probably involves more magic and/or...
Spoiler: show
Nightwing's "Bat-Death Repellent."
Image

Bottom line, it's important. They even made the point of walking you through the scene... twice!!! All just so that you'd be emotionally vested in the story to the point that, when they sprung their "miracle" on you, you'd be so happy it happened, that you wouldn't want to question anything about it. And it worked. But it was a calculated con.

And for the record, I was happy it happened.

But that doesn't mean, I can't tell I was taken for a ride. (So it's not great writing by any stretch of the imagination.)

And in case you missed it the first two times I've said it... I LIKED THE SHOW!!!!!

But that doesn't mean I can't criticize it! The two are not mutually exclusive!!! ¿Comprende?

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Bonus:...Starfire, Steppenwolf w/Desaad, the Joker's Jokerz


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:35 am 
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So, how long of a hiatus do we have this time?

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:06 am 
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If we're lucky, September.

If we're unlucky, November.

I'm more worried about the potential status of Season 3. The silence is deafening.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:37 am 
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Shellhead wrote:
If we're lucky, September.

If we're unlucky, November.

I'm more worried about the potential status of Season 3. The silence is deafening.


Silence is Golden, but...

Spoiler: show
SHOUTING IS FUN! :mrgreen:

Just ask Black Canary.


CCC.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Well, I hope that CN continues to show the series in reruns while we wait. We need to build the audience of the show for it to continue and we can't if they do not broadcast it.

I rewatched the latest episode the other day. I love where this show is going.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Today's YJ was a repeat from last season, but it was a repeat of a great episode. My wife came in and watched it. When Zatanna located the source, she said "So all the adults are there, in that one spot? We told her just to wait. Then the story seems to start again and we see it from the other point of view.

Love how Billy Batson as Shazam allows the two teams to work together. And the end with Nabu/Fate, Zatara and Zatanna is heartfelt. Two great stories from the comics weaved together into a great episode of YJ.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:04 am 
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My two cents:

Spoiler: show
The Aqualad being a double agent twist was thoroughly unearned. You want to talk Hawkgirl not being set up? Aqualad's previous appearance made him seem especially evil even in scenes where he was completely alone and not having to act to anyone.

However, and on this I give Weisman credit: he didn't drag this "twist" out for an entire season to pull the rug out from under us in the finale. He played it as a matter of fact eventual reveal that set the rest of the season up.


As for the JLU comparisons that is really unfair to Young Justice. I don't look at the Hawkgirl arc as superior to YJ but the Cadmus finale will almost certainly never be topped in DC animation ever again. Unless YJ's fictional universe lasts ten to fifteen years it won't happen.

Here's why the Cadmus arc worked so well for the fans: it took seemingly random things that happened in the five previous series and connected them into a huge tapestry. They took the various government conspiracies seen on all of the shows and made them part of a bigger whole. It wasn't merely the continuity shout-outs that made that special: it was the fact that they connected everything together and made you feel as if you had been watching one big story for fifteen years without realizing it at the time. They even managed to connect the conspiracies in BTAS with the freaking Bat-Embargo going on (see the references to Kirk Langstrom and Hugo Strange in The Doomsday Sanction along with Dr. Milo's appearance) which must have been next to impossible. But they did it anyways. Whether or not that was ultimately successful is still up for debate ("Brainiac!") but it will NEVER be topped in the level of ambition it showed by a series that has only run two seasons. It cannot be done.

One thing I WILL say for Young Justice: The animation IS better than JLU's. But frankly, if JLU was still on the air today its action sequences would be as well animated as Young Justice's. DC superhero cartoons seem to be on a learning curve with each subsequent series being better animated than the previous one. Young Justice would never be in the place it was today without the pioneering influence of Joaqium Dos Santos' "shaky-cam" epic battles on JLU. It has nothing to do with budgets but more the tools available and the fact that CGI is less expensive now and is able to look more convincing. It's sort of like trying to compare the special effects of The Ten Commandments with Avatar.

I enjoy Young Justice. But it hasn't surpassed JLU yet. And if it ever does it will take about a decade and many different series to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice Looks Pretty Great!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:53 pm 
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So, any idea when new episodes will come back? I didn't even turn on the TV this morning to see what episode was being shown.

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