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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:21 pm 
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All due respect Chip, but it was his. And his decision.

He's not destroying a collectible at that point, he's making use of something that belonged to him, and it was his right to do as he pleased with it.

Telling someone they can't do what they want with their own things is bordering on socialism.

I personally don't have a problem with Socialism, but I know most Americans are somehow against it (while many of those same people are enjoying all of the positive benefits OF it.)


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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:17 pm 
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True, but at the same time, if you own a dog, you can't legally eat it. I know, I know, huge difference, but lets say you own some rare fossil, never seen before, and you decided to smash it in a million pieces rather than donate it to a museum. Don't you technically have a responsibility to preserve something historically/culturally significant? (just playing devils advocate here) :wink:

*I do agree with chip though on the point that he could have bought a loose one. I'm sure there's plenty out there, he could have left this one for a carded collection. But I also see the point of it being his to do with as he pleases, and wanting a perfect example for his loose collection.

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:42 am 
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Although I disagree with Chip, there is a side of the argument I can understand-- Else made part of the argument (but the problem is Waroks are not one of a kind- loose or carded-- since I personally know of 12 (and thats just in my direct circle of friends--its just not rare.)-Yes one day it might be but this goes on all the time -- Now if something truly is one of a kind I might understand the argument-- rumors say that Gates owns the actual DaVinci Codex (if that is true)-- by the arugment that we present- he could use it as a coloring book - beacause its his... which would be seen as wrong throughout the world...

Kind of like that scene in Brewsters Millions where he buys the rare uncirculated stamp and then uses it to mail the letter...

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:41 pm 
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stewbacca wrote:
Although I disagree with Chip, there is a side of the argument I can understand-- Else made part of the argument (but the problem is Waroks are not one of a kind- loose or carded-- since I personally know of 12 (and thats just in my direct circle of friends--its just not rare.)-Yes one day it might be but this goes on all the time -- Now if something truly is one of a kind I might understand the argument-- rumors say that Gates owns the actual DaVinci Codex (if that is true)-- by the arugment that we present- he could use it as a coloring book - beacause its his... which would be seen as wrong throughout the world...

Kind of like that scene in Brewsters Millions where he buys the rare uncirculated stamp and then uses it to mail the letter...

@ Stewbacca, good points, but then the argument could be made, if they're that common, why didn't he just buy a loose one? Anyway, again, just playing devils advocate. I'm not super knowledgeable on Star Wars toys, so I don't know how rare it is. Is just seems a shame (albeit a small one) to open something that has been preserved for that long in it's bubble, if a good loose one could be found relatively easy.And as many as there are out there in the wild, there's also a LARGE amount of Star Wars collectors to make the demand still fairly high for any carded figure.

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:53 pm 
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It's his.

he can do what he wants.

he has no responsibility to anybody, nor, for that matter does Bill Gates, or a hypothetical owner of a hypothetical fossil.

They bought it, it's theirs to do with as they please.

if Bill Gates chose to burn that codex, it would be frowned upon, it would be a sad loss for humanity, but it's HIS.

and it's not like no scans/photos of it exist.

so, no. They have no responsibility to anybody but themselves. Like it or not its a selfish world, and they are free to do as the please with their own things.

this is not a dog, or something that has feelings, it is a toy. If you can't handle that, tough luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:46 am 
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marillion wrote:
There are PLENTY of NM/MT complete Waroks to go around

Just got one. Hehehe. No coin, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Mister Blisterfists wrote:
It's his.

this is not a dog, or something that has feelings, it is a toy. If you can't handle that, tough luck.

Easy bro, I can certainly handle it. :wink: It doesn't affect me whatsoever, and I don't even collect Star Wars. To quote my previous post, "But I also see the point of it being his to do with as he pleases, and wanting a perfect example for his loose collection." I was just putting the other side of the argument out there for sake of discussion. I actually give the dude props for opening it and enjoying it the way i was meant to be enjoyed. I just think he could've found a more beat up carded example, but it's not that important to me.

I disagree on a rare fossil or something extremely important like that belonging to someone and them not having ANY social responsibility. They certainly have a social responsibility, whether they choose to IGNORE it is another matter. If someone bought the Shroud of Turin, sure, they could burn it, but it would be a HUGE, IRREVERSIBLE insult and loss to any Catholics and a selfish act of destruction for personal enjoyment. Most human beings are more responsible than that.

Either way, not something I really want to argue with anyone about. I respect you and your posts, so I don't want to get into some nonsensical tiff over something that doesn't affect me.

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:57 pm 
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These comparisons to fossils and artifacts are false logic.
This is a toy. It's purpose of being is not to be a preserved collectible. It was created to be removed from its package and enjoyed. That is its destiny and now it has been fulfilled.

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:27 pm 
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SilverThunderPowersMan wrote:
These comparisons to fossils and artifacts are false logic.
This is a toy. It's purpose of being is not to be a preserved collectible. It was created to be removed from its package and enjoyed. That is its destiny and now it has been fulfilled.

I disagree. Whatever original intent it had has changed over time or else the monetary amount people pay to acquire it would have remained the same. This is the same with many items in today's society.

As far as the point Else was making...most Vintage Purists would argue that the collector has a responsibility to the hobby he is a part of. Being responsible in his collecting and doing so in a way that provides enjoyment to himself and also preserves the hobby for others and the hobby as a whole.

Certain carded figures are drying up. Destroying ones that are left to get something you can obtain WITHOUT destroying one is irresponsible to the hobby you are a part of.

Granted, Warok is down on that list right now...but in 5 years or so?

Peace,

Chip

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:24 pm 
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@ Silverthunderspowerman, I wasn't comparing toys to a fossil or rare artifact, I was addressing the point about if you own something, regardless what it was, you can do whatever you want with it, (without having ANY social responsibility, regardless of what the item is). I posted it to further the discussion to see where the line is drawn, throwing out a hypothetical situation to see where people stood on it. Also, many toys are sold as collectibles, not just toys. Look at the talking packaging on the SDCC Starro pack from last year. I wouldn't take the figures and just and just throw the box out, call me crazy. Also, I think some toys have eclipsed being "just a toy". If someone bought up all the rocketfetts in existence and launched them into space, I think most of the toy collector community would be a BIT more upset than taking an loose $1 Hot Wheels car and smashing it with a hammer. Some toys have become part of our culture, and as toy lovers, I would hope we would take care of them and recognize their importance.

As for loose or carded, I have well over 3000 loose toys, tons of loose windups, and I like to try to find a crded version AND a loose version of ones I especially like. I had both TOMY Pac Man ghost windups and still spent over $60 for a carded one just to keep it on card, to put next to Pac Man and Mrs Pac (both carded AND loose). When I score a cool loose windup I've never seen before, I want to try to find a carded one as well just to see how cool the card is, how much a carded one goes for and if I want it. If I already HAVE a carded version (like my set of Q Bert figures), then I go out and look for loose ones, since they're MUCH cheaper and I want them loose anyway. It's just seems a bit wasteful to buy a carded figure when there's plenty of loose ones out there, or even examples on beat up cards that could be salvaged for a mint loose figure. But I seriously love card art, I think some lines look great on display, and at this point, I have more wallspace than shelf space. Also, I don;t play with my toys, I just collect them, talk bout them and look at them (excpet the windups), so it's pointless for me to open action figures that I'm not going to do anything with but display anyway, and I like how they look displayed nice and uniformly on card.

*Also, I don't know if people missed it, but I did put "playing devils advocate" after my post.

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:45 am 
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I truly respect your passions for hunting for, collecting, and maintaining strong MOC collections - both else and Chip. So thank you as a toy lover, since you are preserving these items we love and cherish, including many items I owned and still own in a less preserved state.

So let's close the debate as what is done is done, and ultimately the future will continue with collectors aiming to perserve vs. the natural tendency of things to change from the native state. Until all specimens are captured, it is inevitable that the carded vintage toy will become closer and closer to extinction. It is even harder to have true perspective when we are the living generation of Star Wars, and Q*Bert, Super Powers, and all the rest.

I am not sure you even think about it, when your collections outlive you, how likely are they to stay as you preserved them? How likely will your collections be adopted by someone as passionate about you? And even if they are, what will happen after that person is gone? Will time and the passing of generations devalue what is valued today to the point that opening of the vintage carded toy is no big deal? I have no idea, but history has told us things will be different in the future and what is relevant to us as collectors today may not be as relevant in 50 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:50 am 
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@ Silverpowers, great post!

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:00 pm 
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marillion wrote:
SilverThunderPowersMan wrote:
These comparisons to fossils and artifacts are false logic.
This is a toy. It's purpose of being is not to be a preserved collectible. It was created to be removed from its package and enjoyed. That is its destiny and now it has been fulfilled.

I disagree. Whatever original intent it had has changed over time or else the monetary amount people pay to acquire it would have remained the same. This is the same with many items in today's society.

As far as the point Else was making...most Vintage Purists would argue that the collector has a responsibility to the hobby he is a part of. Being responsible in his collecting and doing so in a way that provides enjoyment to himself and also preserves the hobby for others and the hobby as a whole.

Certain carded figures are drying up. Destroying ones that are left to get something you can obtain WITHOUT destroying one is irresponsible to the hobby you are a part of.

Granted, Warok is down on that list right now...but in 5 years or so?

Peace,

Chip


I was starting to agree with you here until I thought of something.

I'm a huge Ducktales/Scrooge collector and EVERY item i have is loose. That's just my preference. Back in the early 90's there was an actual action figure line for Ducktales and Darkwing Duck. The Ducktales stuff is almost impossible to find. I blew my chance at a MOC Scrooge a long time ago and haven't seen one on Ebay since. My point is, if i ever come across this Scrooge again, and you told me it is the last MOC version i would open it in a heartbeat. It's mine. I bought it to go with my collection and MOC does not. I would not feel guilty in the slightest. And i would display him proudly next to my loose DW action figures. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Ultimately it falls to the buyer/owner on what they wish to do. I generally don't open anything and that is my preference, but occasionally I will (situation depends on many aspects). I agree what's done is done, everyone has their own opinions in which they are entitled and I respect them all! Is it really worth arguing over something you cannot change!?

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 Post subject: Re: Opening A Vintage SW- Completing a Loose Collection
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:14 pm 
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krohlf24 wrote:
Is it really worth arguing over something you cannot change!?

No, it's not. ;)

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