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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:43 am 
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We're getting pedantic about the semantics of the word "flagship," but since we are...
MoMoney wrote:
To me, a flagship line should represent what the characters look like in the comics. A flagship line should have sculpted details and look realistic.

...and...
MoMoney wrote:
Well, that's your world.

Flagship generally means the chief or lead of a related group. Take a random, impartial person, show them the JLU Batman next to the DCUC Batman, and ask them which one they think is the "leader."


I don't know that art style has anything to do with it. It could be that your imaginary random person may just as likely be reacting to the bigger size and weight of the figure, not what art style the sculpting emulated.

A year or more back, when the JLU line was moving right along including many figures we never thought we'd see in ANY line (Aztek? Obsidian? Sand?), while the pre-classic line was nothing but the same ol' Batman/Superman characters (with many repaints/repeats in the mix), would you still have said that particular line was the flagship just because it featured more comic-style sculpting instead of animation-style sculpting? Maybe, but I wouldn't.

I would agree that considering the push it received after the announcement, Mattel intends the classic line to be their flagship. But is it yet in the hearts of consumers? That'll be the true test. It's only hit the selves in the past few weeks. Will it prove to be as successful as the JLU line was, to be capable of lasting as long and producing as many figures? Will they actually produce more than a token amount of female figures (which does seem to matter to many collectors, something Mattel's first 3 waves seem to ignore)? Can it draw in the JLU (and DCD?) customers, while also attracting enough of the Marvel Legends fans to offset animated fans like me who don't care for over-articulated, larger figures and haven't even considered buying the line? More than likely it can, unless their case-ratios/shipping problems/etc sink it before it starts.

But in my heart, the JLU line is the only one I care for, flagship or not. When it goes, so do I. But I'll have a hell of a collection of animated figures when that happens.

Davy


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:13 pm 
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jzachery wrote:
Bottom line is JLU has produced and continues to produce the most characters, the most obscure characters and is the most discussed amongst fans. That's my take.

The most discussed amongst fans here. This site is also infamous for its devout JLU following - look at the poll for "line of the year" in one of the other boards on this site. Even though everyone complained about how awful JLU's distribution was all year, it still won the contest! Go to most other forums (including the Fwoosh, DC Direct, etc.), and you'll see quite a different picture.

stonehd wrote:
A year or more back, when the JLU line was moving right along including many figures we never thought we'd see in ANY line (Aztek? Obsidian? Sand?), while the pre-classic line was nothing but the same ol' Batman/Superman characters (with many repaints/repeats in the mix), would you still have said that particular line was the flagship just because it featured more comic-style sculpting instead of animation-style sculpting? Maybe, but I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn't have, either. They didn't have full access to the DC Universe. At least give them a chance to get off the ground.

When the Justice League line first started, would you have called that the flagship DC line?

stonehd wrote:
Will it prove to be as successful as the JLU line was, to be capable of lasting as long and producing as many figures? Will they actually produce more than a token amount of female figures (which does seem to matter to many collectors, something Mattel's first 3 waves seem to ignore)?

I can't say exactly how long the line will last, but you can hardly judge the line based on its first three waves. Marvel Legends didn't include a single female until wave four.

And remember JL/JLU's first three waves? A hundred varieties of the male heroes, a Wonder Woman, and an exclusive Hawkgirl.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:27 pm 
Why doesn't anyone ever listen to me?
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RRRRRRReeeeow! Meooow! Hiss hiss! :P

Seriously though, I guess only time will tell, JLU when it came out, would I have called it the flagship line? Not sure, I don't recall there being anything else much at the time. Nothing else would have drawn me in though I can tell you that. But JLU has earned that title at this point, when another line hits that point, then call it the flagship line... You just said yourself it's not there yet.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:51 pm 
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jzachery wrote:
RRRRRRReeeeow! Meooow! Hiss hiss! :P

Maybe you're getting heated, but I'm just fine stating facts.

JLU is a fun line based on a great cartoon. However, like stonehd, I don't think that Mattel will be putting the effort into making it the flagship DC line, nor do I think they should.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:56 pm 
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MoMoney wrote:
stonehd wrote:
A year or more back, when the JLU line was moving right along including many figures we never thought we'd see in ANY line (Aztek? Obsidian? Sand?), while the pre-classic line was nothing but the same ol' Batman/Superman characters (with many repaints/repeats in the mix), would you still have said that particular line was the flagship just because it featured more comic-style sculpting instead of animation-style sculpting? Maybe, but I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn't have, either. They didn't have full access to the DC Universe. At least give them a chance to get off the ground.

The fact that they're not off the ground yet is basically what I was saying here:
stonehd wrote:
I would agree that considering the push it received after the announcement, Mattel intends the classic line to be their flagship. But is it yet in the hearts of consumers? That'll be the true test. It's only hit the selves in the past few weeks.

I wasn't arguing with you -- I even agreed that Marvel considers this their flagship at this time. I was just discussing the point you made about whether art style has anything to do with which line should be considered the flagship.
MoMoney wrote:
When the Justice League line first started, would you have called that the flagship DC line?

That depends. I'd have called it Mattel's flagship line, 'cause I'm not sure if they produced any other DC figures in that time besides possible those god-awful 5" movie figures (I don't recall if any of the movie figures coincided with the original JL line; I try not to think about the figures based on the movies -- they give me shivers). If, however, we're talking all DC lines in general, then I'd say that DCD was the flagship back then (but sadly, I think they lost their way due to the over-inflated prices and the character choice which has spiraled into a pattern of: Superman, Batman, Superman in armor, Batman in armor, Kingdom Come, Justice, Kingdom Come, Justice...)

I don't have a horse in this "flagship" race. Just like I don't see a reason to differentiate between whether a character appeared on the cartoon or not (the thread's original topic), neither does it matter to me which line DC, Mattel, or fanboys consider the "flagship" line. My only care is that the JLU line continue in some form, cause it's the only line I care about.

Davy


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:00 pm 
Why doesn't anyone ever listen to me?
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No, I don't get heated at all, I was just playing. Well, I do get heated when I see a thread where everyone and their mom have Fire and Ice and I go to an empty Target again and again and again... That gets me heated but no discussion would. I think debate is fun and sometimes it changes my mind on things, other times, not so much. Heck, today I'm starting to think Aztek is cool and I used to not like him much...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:03 pm 
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jzachery wrote:
Heck, today I'm starting to think Aztek is cool and I used to not like him much...

Aztek was ALWAYS cool :D . Grant Morrison and Mark Millar back before those names were what they are today. I think DC is finally printing a trade of that 10-issue series. I didn't get the last few issues, so I can't wait.

Davy


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:09 pm 
Why doesn't anyone ever listen to me?
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I will be trying to pick up the Aztek stuff, it does sound interesting.

And I don't really care too much what has the title of flagship, but that was just my take on it, so long as JLU keeps producing I will be happy, I don't care what it's called.


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