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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:56 pm 
Why doesn't anyone ever listen to me?
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Last edited by jzachery on Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:02 am 
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jzachery wrote:
elvis8batman wrote:
marillion wrote:
Young Justice? Seriously?

Why do they do this crap instead of new JLU episodes?

Ugh.

Peace,

Chip


Agreed, I'm all for new shows but it does seem like a missed opportunity when they don't tie these together with a new set of JLU episodes. Especially something like Young Justice. That is the perfect chance to pick up where JLU left off, with the same character design and having the teen heroes team up with their mentors on occasion with the JLU popping in as cameos.

.


THIS! THIS! THIS! If you can't do JLU, at the very least continue with something in the Univererse, Detroit League, Justice Leaguen International, Titans, Legion of SH, Young Justice, whatever!!! I hate that the Timm Verse is basically dead right now. Sure he produces new stuff, but it's all self contained, and as good as it is, it just doesn't compare to the rich history he created, that he should continue.
Do you know what I'd settle for? Stuff that takes place in the new continuity that at least ACKNOWLEDGES the DCAU. I heard from somebody that when James Tucker thought up the Owlman two parter of Batman: The Brave And The Bold his original idea was to make the Kevin Conroy Batman and The Batman's Batman part of all of the Batmen from the different universes. I have no clue why he ultimately decided not to do it but that would have slayed me and been the greatest thing ever. If Young Justice or the new Green Lantern series ever did something like that (or better yet a universe spanning Crisis type event featuring characters from The DCAU, The Batman, Teen Titans, LoSH, and Batman: TBATB) I could pretty much die happy. I take comfort in knowing that Bruce Timm is in charge of this potential Lantern series. Because that totally sounds like something he might consider.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:59 am 
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jzachery wrote:
Jim_Abell wrote:
kevfett wrote:
You had me at Arrowette!


Me, too!

(guessing they aren't using Mia/Speedy because of her pre-hero background, the one Smallville didn't shy away from...)


OMG, I was so mad about that, I am hoping they'll have a follow up episode. What I love about that character, isn't her background, but the fact that she overcame all of that, found out she was HIV+, and STILL went out there, and trained herself to become the new Speedy, and she kicks butt at it too.
I even have a custom JLU figure of her:)


Mia is in this week's Smallville and I think she's in the second half of the Absolute Justice event. As for her not being included in Young Justice (if that is the case), an HIV-positive, ex-hooker would never be allowed as a hero in a "kids' show" by the "suits".

As for where this version of Young Justice takes place, even with different character designs it could still be taking place with-in the "Timm-verse". Until the show is announced, we get more information and we get to see designs there's no reason to get upset over it. Even then I remember a HUGE uproar in the fanboy community over the first Batman: The Animated Series designs that were released that people conveniently forget about today...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:23 am 
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Jim_Abell wrote:
I remember a HUGE uproar in the fanboy community over the first Batman: The Animated Series designs that were released that people conveniently forget about today...



HAHAHAHH RIGHT!??! I remember VIVIDLY hearing how people thought that the Batman TAS was "kiddie-fying" Batman "ruining him for all time" Time does heal all wounds! LOL

They had just released line art in Animation World magazine. And people were LIVID! wait till you see how the whole thing plays out.


I have to say, I too am really upset that the current Crisis on 2 Earths DVD isn't in JLU continuity. The idea is for EVERY DTV to be a stand alone story. Which from a business point of view is myopic and ineffectual. It was my whole problem with Green Lantern First Flight. They basically cut any chance of a Sinestro Corps War, or Rage of the Red Lanterns or Blackest Night adaptations out of the mix. When Will power isn't what fuels the lanterns in that mytholgy... how can fear, rage, hope, all that come in to play. They ruined their chance at a franchise!!! What megacorporation DOESNT WANT A FRANCHISE!?!??!?


Last edited by AnimateTed on Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:59 am 
Why doesn't anyone ever listen to me?
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Last edited by jzachery on Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:06 am 
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AnimateTed wrote:
Jim_Abell wrote:
I remember a HUGE uproar in the fanboy community over the first Batman: The Animated Series designs that were released that people conveniently forget about today...



HAHAHAHH RIGHT!??! I remember VIVIDLY hearing how people thought that the Batman TAS was "kiddie-fying" Batman "ruining him for all time" Time does heal all wounds! LOL

They had just released line art in Animation World magazine. And people were LIVID! wait till you see how the whole thing plays out.


I have to say, I too am really upset that the current Crisis on 2 Earths DVD isn't in JLU continuity. I had a meeting with Duane McDuffie, and he said that the WB execs see no value in continuing the series in any fashion. I said, They know they still make toys right? From a show thats been off the air for 3 years! He says they don't care. The idea is for EVERY DTV to be a stand alone story. Which from a business point of view is myopic and ineffectual. It was my whole problem with Green Lantern First Flight. They basically cut any chance of a Sinestro Corps War, or Rage of the Red Lanterns or Blackest Night adaptations out of the mix. When Will power isn't what fuels the lanters in that mytholgy... how can fear, rage, hope, all that come in to play. They ruined their chance at a franchise!!! What megacorporation DOESNT WANT A FRANCHISE!?!??!?

Anyway. WB has some neat things in the cooker. The GL Animated series that Burce is working on is GORGEOUS! I've seen about 5 minutes of CG animation and it's stunning. I'm not sure if it's taking place in any established continuity, but it's Hal, and he's in space.

The thing I'm most excited about though is Mystery Inc. It's going to be the BEST Scooby Doo series ever! It looks the way our memories tell us the original scooby series looked. (Except when you see the original scooby - DAMN it dont look like that at all!)

But it's all about the ensemble, and it's all about the mystery!


AnimateTed, I'm a little behind the power curve here. It's obvious that you're in the "industry" in some way, shape or form. What do you do? And what is McDuffie like? I had a chance to meet him at a comic con a year or so ago, but I couldn't make it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:15 am 
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jzachery wrote:
Understandable for Young Justice... But they should at least acknowledge it in Smallville.


Well, she's only had the one episode so far, I don't think the HIV-positive part of her story came into play for about a year or so in the comics.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:42 am 
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Coming in late here, but I have to agree with Chip. It's just foolish for them to dismiss JLU and not even attempt to bring it back. Not only was it one of the best animated series, but it still has a toy line out in stores that could really use the boost that a new show would bring. There's so much more they could do with it too. They could have actually brought Hal in, they could have had Sinestro forming his corps, they could feature all the sidekicks that never made it in. Surely they could do a few more seasons of material with that many characters.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:10 am 
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Anyone ever think that Bruce Timm wants to get away from the DCAU and the continuity that that series carries with it?

Or that WB/DC doesn't want to produce a continuation of the DCAU without Timm being involved?

It's not always about the money for the creative folks. Sometimes, they want a change of pace. Crying and resisting against another show because it's not JLU or an offshoot of JLU seems incredibly small-minded to me.

It's like a lot of you think that Bruce Timm sits at home, bawling like a baby every day because no one wants to order more episodes of JLU. I think he'd be more upset if that's all that people actually wanted out of him. Actors don't like to be typecast, so why should he?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:37 am 
Why doesn't anyone ever listen to me?
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MoMoney wrote:
Anyone ever think that Bruce Timm wants to get away from the DCAU and the continuity that that series carries with it?

Or that WB/DC doesn't want to produce a continuation of the DCAU without Timm being involved?

It's not always about the money for the creative folks. Sometimes, they want a change of pace. Crying and resisting against another show because it's not JLU or an offshoot of JLU seems incredibly small-minded to me.

It's like a lot of you think that Bruce Timm sits at home, bawling like a baby every day because no one wants to order more episodes of JLU. I think he'd be more upset if that's all that people actually wanted out of him. Actors don't like to be typecast, so why should he?


Why can't he do both?

Generally when a writer or musical artist have a following, they cater to their fans, it's part good business, but the positive reinforcement that the fans give, usually inspire the creator to take things further. It's not like there isn't a wealth of material out there for them to draw from.

Also, the movies that Timm is coming out with, is not so vastly different from JLU, with just a few minor tweaks, it could easily be the same. They're purposefully making it different.

I would agree with you more if he was leaving DC characters and going to write about vampires or something, but they're leaving behind the Justice League for... Wow, the Justice League....

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:38 am 
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You make some excellent points.

Perhaps Timm just wants to move on to bigger and better things.

I won't begrudge him that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:09 pm 
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if BT had his way, JLU wouldn't have ended in the first place. That particular animated universe is by far the best DCU we've ever seen put to the small-screen(and big screen, to a tiny extent) And, it will never be equaled or surpassed. No way, no how!

Wasn't the Crime Syndicate supposed to be introduced in the future(post-cancelled, that is) JLU series? A small hint that the plug was pulled early, I think.

Wasn't there some sort of behind the scenes power struggle between Cartoon Network's execs and DC? Why else would a top rated show be ended prematurely? Ah, hell, at least we're still getting new JLU figures...as few and far between as they are.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:14 pm 
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The Crime Syndicate was supposed to be introduced in a DTV which told the events between "Starcrossed" and "Initiation" (was also supposed to explain where Wonder Woman got the jet). As far as I know this wasn't planned until after the show had gone off the air.

As for the show ending prematurely, nope. Between Justice League and JLU the show had a run double the length of most animated programming. Most companies view animated programming to have run it's course at around 54-65 episodes. That's the point when they can offer the show for weekday morning/afternoon re-runs and that's all WB Animation is really worried about. Apparently the stations that buy animated programming aren't interested in paying a premium for larger episode runs so animation houses don't usually produce more than the minimum number of episodes.Prime-time network 'toons like The Simpsons are real rarities and get treated like a live-action sit-com when it comes to syndication. Anime dubs don't fit this restriction, either, considering that the real expense is alreay paid for (the animation), re-dubbing into English is cheap by comparison.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:07 pm 
Why doesn't anyone ever listen to me?
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Jim_Abell wrote:
The Crime Syndicate was supposed to be introduced in a DTV which told the events between "Starcrossed" and "Initiation" (was also supposed to explain where Wonder Woman got the jet). As far as I know this wasn't planned until after the show had gone off the air.

As for the show ending prematurely, nope. Between Justice League and JLU the show had a run double the length of most animated programming. Most companies view animated programming to have run it's course at around 54-65 episodes. That's the point when they can offer the show for weekday morning/afternoon re-runs and that's all WB Animation is really worried about. Apparently the stations that buy animated programming aren't interested in paying a premium for larger episode runs so animation houses don't usually produce more than the minimum number of episodes.Prime-time network 'toons like The Simpsons are real rarities and get treated like a live-action sit-com when it comes to syndication. Anime dubs don't fit this restriction, either, considering that the real expense is alreay paid for (the animation), re-dubbing into English is cheap by comparison.


I just don't see why it couldn't have morphed into something different... We had BTAS for years, STAS for a few, JL, and JLU...
Like previously we had Challenge of the Superfriends, the SuperFriends Hour, Superfriends, Challenge of the Super Powers, etc...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:14 pm 
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jzachery wrote:
Why can't he do both?

Maybe because he isn't interested. And, really, why should he do both?

jzachery wrote:
Generally when a writer or musical artist have a following, they cater to their fans, it's part good business, but the positive reinforcement that the fans give, usually inspire the creator to take things further. It's not like there isn't a wealth of material out there for them to draw from.

I think that's flawed logic. An "artist" (hell, this applies to everyone) should do what makes them happy and satisfies them, especially if they aren't living paycheck to paycheck. Obviously, not everyone is about to live their life like this, but Bruce Timm, I'm sure, is well enough off that he doesn't worry about where is next paycheck is coming from.

jzachery wrote:
Also, the movies that Timm is coming out with, is not so vastly different from JLU, with just a few minor tweaks, it could easily be the same. They're purposefully making it different.

For a different generation of fans. The DCAU has been around since, what? 1992? That's almost twenty years - and a lot of continuity and baggage to carry forward. They can't base their entire animated media empire on a twenty year-old franchise. They milked it for all it was worth, and now it's time for a "reboot."

(I don't actually think there's going to be an official "reboot," but the fact is that the likelihood of a new Justice League series is probably much higher than a return to the DCAU)

Howard the Duck wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if BT had his way, JLU wouldn't have ended in the first place. That particular animated universe is by far the best DCU we've ever seen put to the small-screen(and big screen, to a tiny extent) And, it will never be equaled or surpassed. No way, no how!

He had ended the series with "Epilogue" before he got the call that Cartoon Network wanted another season. He was as surprised as anyone that the show was continuing.

Howard the Duck wrote:
Wasn't the Crime Syndicate supposed to be introduced in the future(post-cancelled, that is) JLU series? A small hint that the plug was pulled early, I think.

Jim covered this. It was written as a bridge between JL and JLU, and he didn't want to go into detail about the plot after it was shelved because he thought it might get greenlit for a DTV flick at some point. Obviously, it was greenlit, but there were some changes made.

Howard the Duck wrote:
Wasn't there some sort of behind the scenes power struggle between Cartoon Network's execs and DC? Why else would a top rated show be ended prematurely? Ah, hell, at least we're still getting new JLU figures...as few and far between as they are.

Like Jim said - this is a cartoon, not a primetime show on CBS. I don't think ratings had much to do with the show going off at all, to be quite honest.


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