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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:24 am 
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ian5555 wrote:
20+ waves is damn good for any line. I haven't bought anything in this line since like wave 13 though.


It's not ending because it ran out of steam though.


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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:23 am 
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ian5555 wrote:
20+ waves is damn good for any line. I haven't bought anything in this line since like wave 13 though.

It's hard to believe that this line has had 20 waves and we never got Huntress or Poison Ivy, two of the most popular female characters in the DC Universe. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:35 am 
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The Superfly wrote:
texgnome1 wrote:
Wow, even with all the ones you left off you forgot Vixen, Mera & Geoforce just off the top of my head. Ouch.

I know. I added them. Unfortunately, the above list is just off the top of my head, too. :? :( :evil:



You forgot John Constantine, Amethyst, Zauriel, Sgt. Rock, Death, Nightshade, The Forever People, Harbinger, Arisia, Betty Kane Batgirl, Shadow Thief, The Female Furries, Captain Marvel Jr/Shazam, Congorilla, Ragman, Manitou Raven, Secret, etc... :D :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:04 am 
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TwoFace103 wrote:
ian5555 wrote:
20+ waves is damn good for any line. I haven't bought anything in this line since like wave 13 though.

It's hard to believe that this line has had 20 waves and we never got Huntress or Poison Ivy, two of the most popular female characters in the DC Universe. :?


They were coming but Mattel was blindsided by DC.


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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:30 am 
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MoMoney wrote:
http://thefwoosh.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=70068&sid=09c8cb1062f4cd7378cf074ebab5fd1e

DCUC will still be around at retail under a new name. It will be a mix of new and classic. Don't abandon Geo-Force or Vixen just yet. October and NYCC come around quick.



Okay, this gives me more hope than I've had since this was announced. I figured Mattel would probably have to go along with DC's "New Coke" Relaunch, but that link makes it sound like Mattel is more than prepared to hedge their bets against what I sincerely hope is the relaunch's inevitable and quick UTTER FAILURE.

Meanwhile, the subscription line and whatever can be worked into DCUC's successor will hold the line, but WE NEED TO SUBSCRIBE! As reluctant as I am to buy toys online, as reluctant as I am to subscribe (I don't even subscribe to Masters), I sent in my DCUC subscription yesterday, and that was BEFORE I knew about Jay Garrick, Atrocitus, and Thom Kallor Starman, who as far as I'm concerned will work just as well with the Legion as he will with the JSA

So SUBSCRIBE, people, and it doesn't HAVE to be farewell!

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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:37 am 
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The Superfly wrote:
to be clear, my issue isn't just the DCUC action figure line ending/rebranding.

It's what it represents.

The DC Universe that I grew up reading about has been declared irrelevant, uncool, and inconsequential. My silly superheroes that I spent countless afternoon adventures with, tracing and drawing and role-playing, are now decidedly out-of-style and passé.

Dan Didio has declared that the current DC Universe isn't "edgy" enough. Really?

Since he joined DC in 2002, under his watch we've seen:

Sue Dibny retroactively snoogled by Dr. Light
Made the Satellite-Era JLA morally ambiguous and 'flawed'
Roy Harper's character destroyed
Oliver Queen's character destroyed
Conner Hawke's character destroyed (see a pattern here?)
Wally West rendered irrelevant after 20 years of history
Brought Barry Allen back to do...something?
New Gods wiped out
The Marvel Family destroyed
turning Superboy Prime evil
Killing the Earth-2 Superman & Lois Lane
turned Maxwell Lord evil, then killed Blue Beetle, and had Wonder Woman break his neck on live TV
Three different villains in three different titles during the same month making references to wanting to snoog a 15-year-old Supergirl. No joke.

not to mention the unparalleled, pointless, and often gory deaths throughout the DCU, including Blue Beetle, Batman, Sue Dibny, Ralph Dibny, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Firestorm, Jade, Rocket Red, Orion, Superboy Kon-el, Bart Allen Flash, Phantom Lady, Human Bomb, Black Condor, Ryan Choi Atom, Pantha, Psycho Pirate, The Royal Flush Gang, Kite-Man, Prometheus (courtesy of an arrow through the forehead, courtesy of the aforementioned Oliver Queen), Freedom Beast, Tasmanian Devil, wholesale slaughtering of not just Golden Age Heroes Minute-Man & General Glory, but their families (including kids) as well, dozens of heroes during Superboy Prime's tantrums, lots during Blackest Night of course, the entire city of Blüdhaven, and oh, yes, little five-year-old Lian Harper.

Brightest Day could have provided some sort of hope and renewed optimism, but instead we see D'kay D'razz peel off the skin of an innocent suburban American family and Professor Stein killed, along with Hawkgirl and Deadman. How inspiring.

....and Dan Didio wants to make the DCnU MORE edgy?

No, thanks.

So what does this have to do with toys? The 75 years of DC history that the DC Classics toyline drew upon for inspiration is no more. The JSA, the All-Star Squadron, the Freedom Fighters, the Golden Age heroes I loved as a kids are no more. The Silver Age is gone, too, and along with it the goofy charm of those colorful morts like Killer Moth, not to mention the Doom Patrol & the Metal Men. Even the characters that either debuted or saw greater exposure in the 90s like Wally West and Connor Hawke are now afterthoughts. Instead of revitalizing those characters, DC instead has borrowed the worst ideas from the 1990s comics *heroesreborn* and think that we all want to see superheroes with fractal armor, fancy boots, and v-neck collars.

So those are the toys we are going to see, followed by the movies we are going to see. WB demands it, DC wants it, and apparently people are going to buy it. It's a risky move, and I think it's going to fail.

Eventually, I'm sure we'll see our familiar heroes return, along with our Golden/Silver/Bronze/Iron Ages. I have hope for that. But for now, DC is letting me know that my favorite heroes are basically useless. That is painfully disappointing, especially because I know the people making these decisions have no respect for the genre, the history, or the countless fans who have supported DC over the past 75 years.

So is the sky falling? Damn right it is.

Agreed completely here, and may I compliment you on how well you have stated things. I have some hope for the future, because I sincerely believe this mess will fail.

As for Mattel and DCUC, I cannot blame them. As stated, they must follow DC's lead. I'm sure there's any number of them no happier with this than a lot of the fans, including myself. And it still looks like they'll be working some classic-styled characters into the line, bith at retail and, if it flies, the subscription.

All it means, I hope, it having to be more selective with what I buy, and trying to suppress my gag reflex when I see figures of these godawful new designs and the godawful reboots they represent in the comics, neither of which I'll be buying.

Ultimately, it's all about money - not edginess, not proclaiming some PC message for the world to rally around -- and that more than anything will straighten out DC eventually.

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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:41 am 
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I just want Maxima!! I don't care how they do her, ust do her! :oops: I stop collecting DC Direct in hopes of getting her in the DCUC line, if this new line can do that I really don't have any issue with the revamp.

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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Man, did I stumble into a JLU thread by accident? :roll:

DCUC is NOT ending. Buy the sub, get the classic characters you all know and love. Like Jay, for example, and more of the Metal Men and Doom Patrol (most likely). It's that simple.

Superfly, I respect you and your presence on the board, but I feel I have to rebut a good chunk of want you've said, or at least offer a different perspective.

The Superfly wrote:
to be clear, my issue isn't just the DCUC action figure line ending/rebranding.

The DC Universe that I grew up reading about has been declared irrelevant, uncool, and inconsequential. My silly superheroes that I spent countless afternoon adventures with, tracing and drawing and role-playing, are now decidedly out-of-style and passé.For the most part, they are uncool and out-of-style. It's not the 70's and 80's anymore. And kids are aren't buying comics. If the target audience is adults (and it is de facto, as kids don't read comics anymore), then the stories should be more adult.

Dan Didio has declared that the current DC Universe isn't "edgy" enough. Really? Where did he say this? Show me a link.

Since he joined DC in 2002, under his watch we've seen:

Sue Dibny retroactively snoogled by Dr. LightIdentity Crisis was one of my favorite stories and was the first DC cross-over I ever bought. I know of others at my LCS that had IC as their jumping on point
Made the Satellite-Era JLA morally ambiguous and 'flawed'I'd say more realistic.
Roy Harper's character destroyedPretty sure self-destruction is part and parcel of Roy, considering the heroin habit and all.
Oliver Queen's character destroyed
Conner Hawke's character destroyed (see a pattern here?)
Wally West rendered irrelevant after 20 years of historyThis is true, I'll give you that.
Brought Barry Allen back to do...something?Worst relaunch. Even with Johns, it can't all be gold.
New Gods wiped outOther than Darkseid and some of the baddies, I don't care about the New Gods. They were always a bit cheesy.
The Marvel Family destroyedDon't care. Put 'em in a kiddie book where they belong.
turning Superboy Prime evilAgain, I liked this. He's more interesting this way.
Killing the Earth-2 Superman & Lois LaneDon't care about Earth-2 or any other Earth except the primary one
turned Maxwell Lord evil, then killed Blue Beetle, and had Wonder Woman break his neck on live TVAnother arc I really liked. She's an Amazon for crying out loud, and warrior cultures tend to kill people. Plus she paid for what she did. People make mistakes.
Three different villains in three different titles during the same month making references to wanting to snoog a 15-year-old Supergirl. No joke.Must have missed that one. Bad guys are evil. We're not supposed to like them. Joker's killed 100's of people, but that's okay. A couple scumbags discuss jailbait and you get up in arms? Come on.

not to mention the unparalleled, pointless, and often gory deaths throughout the DCU, including Blue Beetle, Batman, Sue Dibny, Ralph Dibny, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Firestorm, Jade, Rocket Red, Orion, Superboy Kon-el, Bart Allen Flash, Phantom Lady, Human Bomb, Black Condor, Ryan Choi Atom, Pantha, Psycho Pirate, The Royal Flush Gang, Kite-Man, Prometheus (courtesy of an arrow through the forehead, courtesy of the aforementioned Oliver Queen), Freedom Beast, Tasmanian Devil, wholesale slaughtering of not just Golden Age Heroes Minute-Man & General Glory, but their families (including kids) as well, dozens of heroes during Superboy Prime's tantrums, lots during Blackest Night of course, the entire city of Blüdhaven, and oh, yes, little five-year-old Lian Harper.If you don't raise the stakes, stories get stale. If you want simplistic morality tales, go watch Superfriends.

Brightest Day could have provided some sort of hope and renewed optimism, but instead we see D'kay D'razz peel off the skin of an innocent suburban American family and Professor Stein killed, along with Hawkgirl and Deadman. How inspiring.I thought Brightest Day was pretty good overall, but I AM an Aquaman fan


No, thanks.

So what does this have to do with toys? The 75 years of DC history that the DC Classics toyline drew upon for inspiration is no more. The JSA, the All-Star Squadron, the Freedom Fighters, the Golden Age heroes I loved as a kids are no more. The Silver Age is gone, too, and along with it the goofy charm of those colorful morts like Killer Moth, not to mention the Doom Patrol & the Metal Men. Even the characters that either debuted or saw greater exposure in the 90s like Wally West and Connor Hawke are now afterthoughts. Instead of revitalizing those characters, DC instead has borrowed the worst ideas from the 1990s comics *heroesreborn* and think that we all want to see superheroes with fractal armor, fancy boots, and v-neck collars. Agree with you that most of the new costumes kinda suck.

So those are the toys we are going to see, followed by the movies we are going to see. WB demands it, DC wants it, and apparently people are going to buy it. It's a risky move, and I think it's going to fail.DC's already failing. They're best books don't even break 110 K anymore. They've got to try something, and I expect Marvel will follow suit sooner or later.

Eventually, I'm sure we'll see our familiar heroes return, along with our Golden/Silver/Bronze/Iron Ages. I have hope for that. But for now, DC is letting me know that my favorite heroes are basically useless. That is painfully disappointing, especially because I know the people making these decisions have no respect for the genre, the history, or the countless fans who have supported DC over the past 75 years.

So is the sky falling? Damn right it is.


Back in the late 1960's Stan Lee wanted to do a story about drugs and the Comics Authority said drugs had no role in a comic book. Stan published the book anyway without the Code stamp and comics were better for the added dose of realism. Comics should push the envelope IMO. Characters have to evolve and grow and suffer or they simply become cardboard cutouts.

Perhaps you read DC in order to escape to a simpler time. I don't. I want my comics as realistic and gritty as possible. It's the same reason I watch shows like Breaking Bad, Dexter, and Spartacus rather than the tripe on the family channel.

Just my two cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Boombot wrote:
All of these complaints make longtime comic book READERS and action figure collectors like myself look bad. I can understand being somewhat hesitant towards the relaunch, as I myself am especially with the news and answers coming out of SDCC. The problem is that most people's concerns, from what I gather, regarding the relaunch are the new costumes, which from most part are minor tweaks. Costume changes should be the least of your concerns. Personally, I'm more worried about how all of this will make sense as a narrative, because you know, that's what comics are but I'll still give it a try.

>All of these complaints make longtime comic book READERS and action figure collectors like myself look bad.
>comic book READERS
>READERS


Since my earlier post regarding the comic history was either beyond your comprehension or ignored outright, let me try to simplify it for you.

It's amusing that you are implying that I don't read the comics. I've been an active consumer of DC product for the better part of 30 years, and have amassed a sizable collection of Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age comics, through treasuries, reprints, and the actual comics themselves. And I've read them all. Every single one. Sure, many of the stories were somewhat silly, but they were also fun. What happened to that? No one was snoogled, or had their families butchered. It may not be realistic, but the DC Universe was always an ideal, an escape. It was always the place you wanted to live in. And there was nothing wrong with that kind of unrealistic innocence in superhero escapism.

But TPTB felt like the 75 years of (admittedly) convoluted DC history needed to be eliminated in order to "reflect today's real-world themes and events". DC needs to be I'm not sure how much of a DC reader you are, but I know were a 1990s kid and don't care for much beyond that era's media, as you stated on other threads. And your statement of:
Boombot wrote:
I'm kind of excited for a JLU origin that's exciting and that I can get behind
tells me all I need to know about your opinion and understanding of the history of the DC Universe and the respect you have for the "narrative".


Boombot wrote:
Personally, I'm more worried about how all of this will make sense as a narrative, because you know, that's what comics are

If you actually keep up with the industry

I'm not sure why you feel the need to be condescending, but I'll play along. You should be worried about how this will make sense, as I have yet to see anyone from DC Comics able to explain the timeline of the New 52 books in relation to one another. Even their own creative teams are confused about the plans. This reboot/relaunch could have been an excellent way to gain new readers along with respecting the current fans, but instead DC has decided to jettison the very things that made DC great by attempting to copy 1990s Marvel, complete with Bob Harras running the show and digging up 90s 'talent' like Liefeld and Lobdell.

It pains me to see this DCnU idea almost universally panned by fans and industry professionals alike. I want DC to succeed. I want this to be a success. But I also am not blind to the foolish choices and branding mistakes being made by WB and DC, simply to fulfill a corporate agenda. Why should I play along with a fake smile and a cheery attitude, if I am unhappy about the direction DC is taking my beloved characters? Apparently I should just cease because it makes you uncomfortable, but as a consumer, I have a right to voice my opinion. An opinion, by the way, that is shared by dozens of others in the industry. If you actually kept up with the industry, I would not need to be explaining all this.

So DC isn't going for 'edgy'? You do realize that an entire imprint under the DCnU is called 'DC EDGE'?

But it must be me, right? Apparently I'm the only one calling out DC's feeble attempt at being 'kewl' and 'extreme' and 'edgy'.

"For as long as I’ve known him, Dan Didio has believed the key to a resurgent DC is reclaiming all the readers the commercial medium lost in the 90s"
http://www.ifanboy.com/content/articles ... nd_Digital

"That’s edge. Kids love edge. You’ve gotta have edge if you’re going to sell comics. The only problem we had with sales of 52 and Trinity was that they just didn’t have enough edge!"
http://jonathanlast.com/2011/05/31/brin ... dan-didio/

"They’ll all be considerably younger and more 'edgy'..."
http://www.csicon.org/have-you-tried-tu ... -on-again/

"They’re taking iconic costumes and overcomplicating them in an unnecessary and unattainable bid at realism and grittiness."
http://eatyourserial.com/blog/bsn-1-the ... nu-so-far/

"Nothing is less edgy than things which tell you they are edgy: The latest batch of DCNu."
http://www.signal-watch.com/2011/06/not ... which.html

"DC Gets Edgy"
http://comicrelated.com/news/12290/dc-gets-edgy

and the worst one yet:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/23/ ... nightmare/

OK, the last one was iffy. But I think you get my point.

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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Shellhead wrote:
DCUC is NOT ending. Buy the sub, get the classic characters you all know and love. Like Jay, for example, and more of the Metal Men and Doom Patrol (most likely). It's that simple.


Not exactly. Just do the math. We're getting a measly 13 classic DC figures for the entire year. That would have only been a couple of waves in past years. No matter how good the character selection is, it's still a major cutback compared to what we were getting before. Maybe that seems fine to those who were already picking and choosing with the regular waves, but for loyal completists it really sucks getting a fraction of the figures we were getting in previous years.

Yes, there's a chance that we MIGHT still get a few classic figures mixed in with the new rebranded retail line, but I doubt it will be anything significant at least in the first year of this line. They'll be focusing primarily on the new DCnU crap at retail. So with that in mind, imagine how many years of this subscription program it will take to get the main figures on our wishlists or to complete the existing teams like Doom Patrol and Metal Men when there's only 13 potential slots to fill for the entire year? And that's assuming the subscription program even LASTS more than a single year, if that.

And then there's the price. We'll have to pay a lot more per figure since you are buying them individually instead of as a case-packed wave, and forced to pay an extra $8 shipping per figure each month on top of its base price. The 6" figures will be $15 each, so that means you'll really be paying $23-24 per figure when you add shipping. Then the 3 $30 oversized figures will be $38 each with shipping! Ugh. That's practically what we would have been paying Ebay scalpers in the past. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Fair enough.

However, I only want 4 characters from Waves 17 and 18. More figures is not necessarily better. The sub is 3 for 3 for me so far. Much better than either of the most recent waves.

Yes, shipping will suck. No denying that.

I'm not giving up on the new line just yet. I'll have to see the first couple waves before I consider it all crap.

Why don't we see what NYCC has to show us before we declare the sky is falling?

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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:52 pm 
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You can't blame us for the reaction Shell. The initial news was just that the line was ending at retail after wave 20.


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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Does anyone else see the gross contradiction here:

DCnU is to be a new, edgy version of the DC unversed appeal to older readers... So let's make toys of these new morally compromised versions of classic characters to sell at retail.

Then we'll hear "The line has to attract moms and kids".

I mean... What?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:55 pm 
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AnimateTed has a good point there. Retail is frequently up in arms about adult-oriented product. It's been happening since the days of Spawn right up to the recent Dexter figure fiasco.

Warners (which calls the shots above DiDio, Lee, Harras, and Johns at the end of the day) knows that Mattel will continue to play it safe with their products. The stories might keep getting grittier and more "realistic," but parents won't be any wiser if all they care about is how their kids love Superman's shiny new armor.


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 Post subject: Re: Farewell DCUC...we barely knew ye...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:13 pm 
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The New Coke DCU is like Lord Lion-O discovering a new and useless arbitrary power with the Sword of Omens.

'Sword of Omens, give me Crap Beyond Crap'

Superfly, I'm right there with you, man. The DCU as I and anyone who's ever read comics has known it has been destoyed, rebranded, rebooted, and made 'oh-so-edgier'. All for some 'Hey, look at us over here at DC! We have fifty-two number one issues and we're throwing out decades of continuity for a cash grab and an attempt at gaining a market share majority' BS mentality.

The Anti-Monitor couldn't defeat the heroes of the DCU. Extant, Parallax, Doomsday, Darkseid, or Nekron couldn't destroy it. Imperiex, Professor Zoom, Krona, Superboy Prime couldn't end it all either.

No, the DCU saw it's ultimate destruction at the hands of DiDio, Lee, and Johns. Big fans of New Coke the three of them are. Mattel is but a pawn in it all, and as a result we get Club Infinite Earths...a dumping ground(for lack of a better phrase) for all that was due for retail until the DC Reboot was made real.

Heh, in one year we'll see just what the DCU has become. Mattel, good luck to ya!

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