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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:15 am 
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All I can say is that the only reason I ever read GL is because of what Johns did with it.

And considering the massive spike in sales GL experienced under his watch, I know I'm not alone. :wink:

You guys remind me a lot of the people who continually whine about Bendis over in Marvel. While I don't like everything he does (like putting Wolverine in the Avengers), I've enjoyed the majority of what he did and he helped boost sales as well.

We've got to face it, guys. We're the old guard (I've been reading comics for 30 years). Comics have evolved in some ways beyond us. The silver age can keep it's cheesy plots. While I'd prefer a more 80's adherence to continuality, I know I'm not really their market anymore.

Johns got me to buy a book I'd never buy otherwise. That's why DC's using him so heavily. He gets results. You may not like it, but it is what it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:21 am 
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Shellhead wrote:
Comics have evolved in some ways beyond us. The silver age can keep it's cheesy plots. While I'd prefer a more 80's adherence to continuality, I know I'm not really their market anymore.

I love this part!

Shellhead wrote:
Johns got me to buy a book I'd never buy otherwise. That's why DC's using him so heavily. He gets results. You may not like it, but it is what it is.

Sure it works in comics but does it mean it works in toys? The line was doing well and then his influence cropped up. And then the line died. And think no one is really complaining about him as much as just complaining about the over doing it with his era on his books. Too much of something gets stale after a while.

I liked the Batman Legacy set up... just a smattering of EVERYTHING from all over.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:17 am 
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This thread has become such a Critical Mess...

;)

...and that's a great thing.

Peace,

Chip :D

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:19 am 
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j1h15233 wrote:
fball13z wrote:
Ok then why the dislike for the sub is my question, it is mostly Johns free.

To me it seems like the figures you are asking for are already being made in the sub


That's what I was thinking. Rocket Red mess aside, the sub has been nothing but classics goodness that we were promised.


It's perception. Some of the Geoff Johns connections in the sub are tenuous, but when you've had too much of something even just a little bit of it can turn you off to it:

Golden Age Flash - well, not exactly. Rather than an iconic, young Jay Garrick complete with boot wings we get Old Chicken-faced Jay, as written by GJ

Atrocitus - created by GJ. Not a classic character though he does fit the "alien" and possibly the "team builder" criteria. Granted he is necessary -- we already have Skallox, Nite-Lik and Dex-Star for better or worse -- but many believe he should have been at retail.


Starman - beautiful looking figure of one of the most dynamic costumes in comics -- I've heard fans and professionals state their admiration for it many times over the years. Does one professional matter more than the others in this case though? This Thom Kallor will likely fit in more with Stargirl and Magog than with the Legion set. Now I have to say, when speaking with Mattel at SDCC I said I'd like an alternate bearded head so that he'd fit in with the Legion and I think all of the online requests for that brang it about -- but due to a minor difference in hairstyle that's actually a bearded JSA version and not a Legion version. It's fine, really. I'm very happy we got that. But now I wish it had been a clean shaven crewcut version :)

Rocket Red - from a GJ storyline. We've talked this to death.

Mirror Master - in the giant-puffy-collared costume from GJ's Flash run. Like I said -- tenuous. But when you've had enough you start looking for this sort of thing. Not bothered about only one open hand -- I've never seen him use two guns at once in the comics and having two removable guns probably had to do with tooling.

Black Mask - no GJ connection that I know of. Kind of a minor character if you ask me so disappointing in that aspect. And, I actually like the looks of the classic version more, even though I didn't know he existed till someone posted pics recently!

Poison Ivy - again, no GJ connection. Another case of my expecting classic looks in the sub, modern looks at retail. The two fists don't bother me. Yes a "plant summoning" hand would look nice but I'm perfectly happy with "plant commanding" fists.

Platinum and Tin - once again no connection.

Metron - yet again, no GJ connection. Of the other voting choices though, there was of course Rocket Red and the much-reviled Black Lantern Swamp Thing whose inclusion was immediately put down to GJ's influence.

Overall the sub choices are good I think, but over half could be seen as Johns-centric, and that doesn't include those other club exclusive choices. Add that to the past few DCUC waves and the original selections for DC All-Stars -- Larfleeze, Flashpointless Plastic Man and Johnsified Superboy-Prime ... it's Geoff Johns overkill.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Jim_Abell wrote:
What I find odd is that apparently Mattel is the only outside company that is being required to market the new DCnU looks. Treehouse Kids is making the DC Heroics figures in the classic costumes, Mezco's Mighty Muggs-like figures are all classic looks except for the movie-style Green Lantern, Funko's stuff is all classic styling, plenty of t-shirts and other clothing that are "classic" or silver-age, Tonner dolls are based on the classic outfits -- Why is Mattel being singled out for this mandate?
.


This has been my question as well? -- But things like the upcoming monthly European Chess Figures-- All the figures are of the new 52 Costume style- except for Harley Quinn-- who is in her normal costume-- (wheres DC approval on that-- you can forcefeed us the new universe-- except where we realized we screwed up and in those cases you can use classic costumes (guess thats why they killed her off)- There is no consistencey..

My other point is the fact that in several of these Q&As we were told by Mattel that they had a close working relationship with DC- and thats why we got some of the characters-- beacuse we werent clued it on what was coming-- (SC Batman-- he was used a lot wasnt he :roll: )-- except they had no idea the 52 was coming-- and then they say it took them by surprise as well-- you can't have things both ways and expect us to forget how you answered a question before-- either you have a relationship or you dont-- either you are being told what to make or your'e not--Your excues one time cant be your rationale the next-

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Shellhead wrote:
All I can say is that the only reason I ever read GL is because of what Johns did with it.


Well, that's you. A lot of people loved what John Broome, Denny O'Neil, Marv Wolfman, Steve Englehart and Ron Marz did with GL, too. A concept like Green Lantern doesn't last 70 years because of one guy.

Quote:
And considering the massive spike in sales GL experienced under his watch, I know I'm not alone. :wink:


A lot of people watch "Keeping Up With The Kardashians", too. A lot of people bought Rob Liefeld drawn comics back in the 90's. That doesn't make it any good. I don't deny Johns has his fans, I just don't think he's that great.

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You guys remind me a lot of the people who continually whine about Bendis over in Marvel. While I don't like everything he does (like putting Wolverine in the Avengers), I've enjoyed the majority of what he did and he helped boost sales as well.


Even though this has nothing to do with anything, I like the Bendis Avengers run, too.

You're accusing us of "whining" because we don't agree with you, that's all. I'm glad you think Johns is all that and a ham sandwich. I'll continue to think he's badly overrated and doesn't hold a candle to past GL writers.

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We've got to face it, guys. We're the old guard (I've been reading comics for 30 years). Comics have evolved in some ways beyond us. The silver age can keep it's cheesy plots. While I'd prefer a more 80's adherence to continuality, I know I'm not really their market anymore.


I read plenty of comics, but I'll stick with the ones that are good, thanks. And as soon as Geoffy can convince me that he can write as well as Gardner Fox or John Broome, I'll start reading his stuff.

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Johns got me to buy a book I'd never buy otherwise. That's why DC's using him so heavily. He gets results. You may not like it, but it is what it is.


I got four words for ya: Green Lantern The Movie.

And let's not keep missing the point here: He can write as many crappy overrated comics as he wants. That just saves me money. I just wish he would have left the toys alone. It's supposed to be DC Universe Classics, after all, not Geoff Johns Ego Classics.

Mike
(Good ol' Geoff keeps getting "results" like the GL movie, and comics is all he'll write.)


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:05 pm 
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And I would say that the only reason a Green Lantern movie even got made was because of Johns work turning GL into a Top Ten book again. It's all a matter of perspective.

I will grant that I'm a relative newcomer to the DCU. The Death of Superman got me in, and the new JLA and PAD's Aquaman run kept me there. Eventually I discovered the greatness of Wolfman/Perez's Titans run. So maybe I'm not as invested in it as you clearly are.

I like Johns work, you don't. We'll just have to agree to disagree. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:07 pm 
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Shellhead wrote:
I don't get all the Geoff Johns hate. :?

He almost single-handedly revitalized Hal Jordan. Before that, he did great work on JSA and the Titans. And his current work is doing wonders for Aquaman. I think he's been very good for the DCU.


1. Hal is still the same old boring personality he was 15 years ago when they replaced him with Kyle. The interesting stuff is all the new characters Johns has created around Hal. But at the same time, I feel Johns has marginalized Kyle Rayner, John Stewart and Guy Gardner. Blackest Night was good, but we lost many heroes in the lead up.

2. Barry Allen. Another exciting revival of another boring character only made interesting by all the other characters around him. I liked the rogues from the future as heroes. But I disliked John's run on the Flash featuring Wally West. I actually dropped the book.

3. Teen Titans. John's made a mess of the Titans and Young Justice, dissolving both teams to create the one he wanted. He messed with the ages of the characters making Raven younger than her original counterparts and reverted Changling to using the Beast Boy name. The fun loving Young Justice team was thrown into a much more violent environment that after 15 issues I dropped the book and sold the run. How many series have I disliked so much I sold them? Only 3.

4. The JSA. We need to divide this into two themes here. John's did some fantastic stuff on the first run of JSA. The stories that tied DC history together - Shazam, Dr Fate, Hawkman and Metamorpho's histories all interacting - were great. But oth runs of the JSA that Johns has been involved in have had very dark stories at times, which I did not enjoy. The second run open with a story where relatives and 2nd generation heroes were being killed off. 1. Why does DC think I would want to read such a story where the heroes are being killed off is beyond me. 2. When the creators report in an interview that it was painful to create the issue, to me that is a guide telling you you are producing the wrong story. The artist commented in an interview that issue 3 was painful to draw. While I bought issues 5 through the end of the 1st run, the 1st issue and that interview were enough to make me skip the entire 2nd run, going as far as returning the 1st issue for credit.

5. Infinite Crisis. This, and its lead ups were a crapping on of classic ideas. Ted Kord's death was DC making a point that fun heroes (and stories) were a thing of the past. His death, and that of Rocket Red were pointless. Earth 2 Superman's death was a disgrace. We lost Superboy. I think we lost a Flash. Nightwing was on the chopping block. Superboy Prime was a one note character turned into something stupid. But it saved me money. It stopped me from buying crossovers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Shellhead wrote:
And I would say that the only reason a Green Lantern movie even got made was because of Johns work turning GL into a Top Ten book again. It's all a matter of perspective.


And I would argue that it's the success that Marvel Studios has had with their films that got a Green Lantern movie made. Warner Brothers wanted a piece of that pie.

Here's what the WB found out: Geoff Johns is no Kevin Feige.

Gonna be awhile before we see a Justice League movie, I'm afraid.

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I like Johns work, you don't. We'll just have to agree to disagree. :wink:


Works for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:54 pm 
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I thought we lost Superboy do to rights issues, which is why his Legion Box Set Hero click at the time was called Young Superman.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:53 pm 
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SDcomics wrote:
I got four words for ya: Green Lantern The Movie.


Ah yes ... the movie that took a bunch of longtime alien Green Lanterns, radically altered them so they look nothing like their comic book counterparts and featured them for 5 minutes so that action figures could be made ... to hang on pegs for eternity because they're unrecognizable to comic readers and kids didn't care for them because they didn't do anything in the movie!


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Hey the Green Lantern Classics preview figure... he dies!

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Geoff Johns did not write the GL movie. Not sure why he's getting all the blame for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:10 pm 
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He may not have wrote it, had he simply wrote it it could have been better. He was a Co-Producer which is worse. In Hollywood, the Producers and Directors have more control over what happens to a script once it is sold. Unlike television where the writer still holds a bit more control, a reason why Whedon loved television for Buffy over what Warner did with his script.

Image

I'd bet my collection that as a Co-Producer and because of who he is at DC 'Head of Creative Projects' he had a lot more influence and say over this project.

Just my two cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for April 2nd
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:25 pm 
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There were also 3 producers ahead of him, not to mention the idiot suits at WB who probably controlled everything anyway. I just don't think he had much to do with it. No one with common sense did anyway.


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