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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:47 pm 
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elvis8batman wrote:
spacemonkeymikey wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks these "captcha" things are getting more and more indecipherable?


Nope, me too, I had to get drunk just to see what it said!! :wink:

I had to do it like 10 times, then decided to just refresh it until I saw letters I could actually... see. lol


D.

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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:52 pm 
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red Ricky wrote:
DisneyBoy wrote:
Can Mongul be customized into any awesome WW characters?

I can't picture any specifically...

You could probably turn him into a Khund.

But in all honesty... and after the epic beating those two gave each other... why would you not adopt him as a Wonder Woman villain? I mean, as Smackdown Battles go... he's got to be on Wondie's Top 5!!!

Image
Image

I have to say while that episode of JLU had some great moments... I hated the new colors on Mongul (though minor) and how he so easily knocked the crud out of Supes compared to "War world" where Superman held his own but then allowed himself to take beating after beating... and then was still perfectly fine and ready at the end to clean Mongul's clock. In the JLU episode Superman seemed to be giving it his all and yet got owned by Mongul far too often...
sorry off-topic... carry on. :)


D.

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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:31 am 
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I had a difficult time watching that kind of violence, period. Wonder Woman's face getting pounded into the ground is not something I want to see.

But as for the suggestions, Khunds might work, but I don't care about 'em :lol: Kilowog is a great idea An-Gel, but maybe this body is too big?

I look forward to seeing your efforts regardless :)


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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:01 am 
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Come on, Disney. It's a CARTOON.

Watch some anime and you'll see real violence.

Now, live action women getting the crap kicked out of them is another story. That scene in KICK ASS where Hit Girl was brutalized was stomach turning.

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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:11 am 
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Well, I was sensitized to the gentle, slow-motion pushing seen in B:TAS. To go from that to Diana being abused by Mongul was jarring.


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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:11 pm 
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DisneyBoy wrote:
Well, I was sensitized to the gentle, slow-motion pushing seen in B:TAS. To go from that to Diana being abused by Mongul was jarring.

I agree that the scene was brutal and possibly in bad taste, especially for a kids show. However, have you considered the idea that that was what it was going for? The domestic abuse angle screamed out at me and seemed to exist to let the audience know exactly what kind of monster Mongul is. It's not pretty and it's hard to watch, especially when it happens to a character you care about. But I think it's supposed to be. The child abuse in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker struck a similar chord with me. It wasn't glorifying it, but rather making a statement about it.

Frankly, I think people downplaying the violence in that scene need to check themselves. Yeah, there's more violent things out there, but if you don't see anything wrong with that scene maybe you're TOO desensitized.

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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Funny thing... I've always found the torturing of children by Granny Goodness far more disturbing than any fight Wonder Woman could have with Mongul or any other alien. As far as I'm concerned, Wonder Woman is no delicate flower.
If someone can both dish it, and take it, it's her.

Children on the other hand...

Image

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Essential JLU:...1. Jax-Ur...2. Robin (Grayson)...3. Trickster...4. Power Girl...5. Spectre
...6. Chronos...7. Killer Croc w/BabyDoll...8. Felix Faust...9. Poison Ivy...10. Deathstroke
Bonus:...Starfire, Steppenwolf w/Desaad, the Joker's Jokerz


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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:28 pm 
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DisneyBoy wrote:
Well, I was sensitized to the gentle, slow-motion pushing seen in B:TAS. To go from that to Diana being abused by Mongul was jarring.

same feeling here, I thought she should have been strong enough to hold her own... atleast enough until Supes got there... but whatever.
Back on subject... so did anyone get their order shipped off yet? MC.com sent me an email saying I have an order, but when I enter the number on the site to check the status... I get a message saying there is no record of my order. Yes I realize it has only been 1 day after placing the order, but I was just curious if anyone else has had this error before, or if it is a normal thing. In the past MC.com was always super fast with everything I ordered and there were no error screens for me, I usually got my stuff 3-5 days after the day I placed the order, with no fuss.
...again just curious. :)

D.

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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:29 am 
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Mine shipped same day, but by the time it clears through customs the next pack will be up for order.

I am putting all 6 packs aside as a christmas present for my daughter so it's not a problem really, I just hope the final pack is early in december to give it a chance to arrive here


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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:52 am 
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Quote:
Back on subject... so did anyone get their order shipped off yet?


I got a shipping notice this morning. I wish it had gone out yesterday. Then I might have a chance of getting it by the weekend. Now it will be next week. Oh, well. Six months ago I thought I'd never get a Mongul at all. And hey, I get the fun of watching the package roam all over the continental United States before it arrives here.


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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:43 am 
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Bryan Long wrote:
Quote:
Back on subject... so did anyone get their order shipped off yet?


I got a shipping notice this morning. I wish it had gone out yesterday. Then I might have a chance of getting it by the weekend. Now it will be next week. Oh, well. Six months ago I thought I'd never get a Mongul at all. And hey, I get the fun of watching the package roam all over the continental United States before it arrives here.

lol, I hear ya, I am so impatient with ordering stuff online... actually both impatient and anxious, (stressed) But anyways, I got my order fixed or whatever and it says it was shipped and is currently in Ontario Cal. Airport. So I hope it gets here by next Monday or Tuesday, (who knows... maybe even Saturday, ;) )


D.

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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:51 am 
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I just got my shipping notice as well.

It's been a long drought without JLU stuff and I'm happy I can close the chapter on this part of my collecting.

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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:04 am 
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Dusty wrote:
I thought [Wonder Woman] should have been strong enough to hold her own... atleast enough until Supes got there... but whatever.

I thought that's what she did. She obviously got roughed up in the process (as did Superman); but that was the plan. Hold Mongul off until Bats could get the Black Mercy off. Either way, the whole story is taken (in some cases, verbatim) from Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons' Superman Annual #11. So I guess it is what it is because the creators of Watchmen and the writer of Swamp Thing, V for Vendetta, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Top Ten and The Killing Joke, decided it that way.
Image

Dusty wrote:
Back on subject... so did anyone get their order shipped off yet?
D.

Mine shipped today.

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Essential JLU:...1. Jax-Ur...2. Robin (Grayson)...3. Trickster...4. Power Girl...5. Spectre
...6. Chronos...7. Killer Croc w/BabyDoll...8. Felix Faust...9. Poison Ivy...10. Deathstroke
Bonus:...Starfire, Steppenwolf w/Desaad, the Joker's Jokerz


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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:17 am 
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Mine has shipped.

Hmmm, looks like Starman might be on his way to a sell out as he's "Almost Gone".


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 Post subject: Re: JLU 7/16/12 the FIRST of the 6 LAST 3-packs.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:40 am 
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However, have you considered the idea that that was what it was going for? The domestic abuse angle screamed out at me and seemed to exist to let the audience know exactly what kind of monster Mongul is.


Oh, I've gone back and forth on my thoughts several times, but I have to listen to my gut and my gut says "too far".

(Of course, I'd better not say that too loudly, lest bt hear me)

I can get behind violence when it makes sense in a scene and for the characters. H'ro holding Shayera up by her hair and throwing her into the floor was terribly painful to watch, but completely worked for the scene. He felt betrayed by his mate and was treating her like a piece of garbage (or something else that I can't type here or it'll get bleeped) and it came out of the character. I can't compare Mongul vs Diana to domestic abuse because...they really have no relationship at all. They've only just met, so there's no connection to that kind of situation other than a superficial one.

I get that Mongul might have no respect for women (it's certainly alluded to here, with his dialogue about how easily Diana was beaten at the very beginning, and the "it's a woman's weapon" line), but it didn't entirely feel like a compelling character note, as far as justifying his fighting style goes.

One of my beliefs as a WW fan is that she uses her fighting skills with discretion. JL/JLU made her much more hot tempered and action-ready than I liked. FTMWHE came at a point when I was tired of seeing Diana brawl. Though I do like the episode, I find it hard to watch because it's just more of the producers thinking Diana's biggest value is in her fists (again, that's how it feels to watch it when 90% of her screen-time is brawling, even if it is a story from a comic created years earlier).

Then factoring in how she is slapped across a room and almost choked to death on-screen....and you can't blame me for being uncomfortable.

Thank you to whomever posted that still of Diana using the canon in the comic - I wasn't sure if that was in the original book, and I really disliked it in the show. For one thing, we'd heard too many "Go To...!" 's in the series over the years, LOL. For another, I found it really bizarre that Wonder Woman would immediately reach for a piece of alien technology to take out this guy.

The gun is an important piece of Batman's mythology. When Luthor offers one to him in "Destroyer" he refuses it, even though it could mean certain death. Later, in "Rebirth" we see Bruce use a gun and it destroys him emotionally. Those kinds of boundaries really make the character human in an interesting way. He refuses to use a gun because it is the symbol of what he fights against, at least in his mind's eye. Seeing Diana pick up a huge gun with Batman just a couple of feet away creates this parallel that isn't flattering. Yes, Diana's a warrior that will use whatever tools she has...but it shows how Wonder Woman differs from Batman, because she'll use that weapon, same as Lex would. People don't understand why Superman toys come with rocket launchers for the same reason. He doesn't need them, and he typically fights the people who use the guns. On JL/JLU, Diana uses gun canons twice (In Starcrossed as well) and both times seemed to be met with general "Oh that's awesome!" response from fans (or at least the creators, on the commentary track), but to me...it didn't feel right at all. Because A) we have no reason to believe Diana ever learned how to use them and in fact probably would have been against them given how they're used in Man's World and B) It draws a comparison between her and the people who will go to extremes to win a battle.

Lastly, B:TAS was very closely watched to make sure that there wouldn't be any violence that children could imitate. Someone putting their hands around someone else's neck? In an episode as special as this one, where the 3 big heroes get together to celebrate a birthday? That's the kind of stuff the storyboard artists would have found a way around in the past. There would have been a discussion and in the end, they would have found a more potent and less graphic alternative (like say, the dangling wire in "Robin's Reckoning"). All in all, I think they could have showed Diana dancing circles around charge-and-hit Mongul in a way that made us smile and root for her and list this episode as one of her best, instead of saying "Well she took a beating...and that's kinda cool, I guess", as so many have.

To be clear: she didn't have to have the upper hand and be above Mongul. I love WW, but I don't think she's interesting if she's above everyone. In fact, I loved that they took a moment to show her crawling across the floor, clearly bruised and with what looked like a broken arm. Lord knows cartoons never show those kinds of consequences in most animated fights, and they speak volumes about why fighting isn't a good solution.

Quote:
Funny thing... I've always found the torturing of children by Granny Goodness far more disturbing than any fight Wonder Woman could have with Mongul or any other alien.


I definitely agree. Granny's sweet-voiced "why don't you just give up Scott?" is truly unnerving, in a great way. Because so many people use that tactic to torture in real life. And that's something that can be shown on television, for an audience of children or adults and they'll get it.

Quote:
The child abuse in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker struck a similar chord with me. It wasn't glorifying it, but rather making a statement about it.


I totally agree on ROTJ. I honestly can't watch that movie as much as I'd like because it's a really, really sick story. You can't walk away from it saying "aww, it all worked out in the end" because the film has gone to lengths to show that no - life isn't that simple. The abuse is contextualized as being purely (mostly?) about the villain's ultimate plan - revealed in the final act - but to me, the story is really about snoog and torture at its core. It's so much worse (and much more brilliant, from a storytelling perspective) than The Killing Joke, because it doesn't go for the "glory shot" so to speak. It tells a much more layered story and gets under your skin.

Mongul choking Diana is nothing more than them (I presume) copying a panel from the comic book. It's not a statement. Not saying everything has to be, but I love the DCAU because it usually goes that extra mile.

In the end, I can't (and won't) go through the battle and say "this punch worked, that kick didn't" (as much as it may seem as though I already am) because I get that a crazy fight is a crazy fight. Diana was fighting to save the whole planet essentially, and Mongul was trying to kill her quickly so he could move on to Batman. Totally get that. But maybe they could have strayed a little from the source material in this case to give us a battle that didn't show a frankly underwhelming villain easily putting his hands around the neck of (arguably) the most Important Female Character in the DC Universe (and certainly a symbol of feminine Strength and Equality), and instead show us how Diana fights when her moment of truth arrives, and all those years of Amazon training come into play.

In the end, it was her brain that won the day. I would have liked to see her use it more throughout the battle (though the hall of weapons did buy some time).

The more room there seemed to be to play with violence in JLU, the less interesting the battles became. Grudge Match could have been awesome, but it was only okay in the end.

:? :roll: I think I've written too much again. You get my overall drift, I'm sure.


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