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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:00 am 
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ian5555 wrote:
So it was a hard to find figure, so what?

Because their strategy for the line's success was to have a core group of people buy everything they made, yet they didn't care that it was impossible to find several figures.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:01 am 
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I freaking hated the twist of Epilogue. It seemed so tacked on and unnecessary, especially considering that they never explored the ramifications. Huge letdown for me.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:45 am 
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The ramifications were all the black & white scenes in Terry's mind, as he was working through the information. In the end, these are men of few words. Bruce knew. Terry finally figured it out. Life goes on. But trust me, if you hated this twist; you'll hate the one in the "new" Batman Beyond comics. Honestly, it's as if the writers never saw the cartoons. (It boggles the mind!)

ps: I'm having trouble with a couple of Mattel stuck hips (Surprise! Surprise!) And I've already tried the boiling method, the freezing method, and the boil & freeze & wiggle method. Are there other alternatives? Or should I "live with it" until I find a replacement figure? (Quick answers will do, as I don't want to start a thread for a simple question.)

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Essential JLU:...1. Jax-Ur...2. Robin (Grayson)...3. Trickster...4. Power Girl...5. Spectre
...6. Chronos...7. Killer Croc w/BabyDoll...8. Felix Faust...9. Poison Ivy...10. Deathstroke
Bonus:...Starfire, Steppenwolf w/Desaad, the Joker's Jokerz


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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:01 am 
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jamiwa3 wrote:
ian5555 wrote:
So it was a hard to find figure, so what?

Because their strategy for the line's success was to have a core group of people buy everything they made, yet they didn't care that it was impossible to find several figures.


I disagree and most certainly not when this wave came out.Their strategy was sell action figures to kids which is what their strategy should be in nearly every case when a cartoon is involved.

I swear it's like people think Mattel is sitting back in a board room twisting their mustaches, thinking about ways to screw their customers while laughing about it afterwards with some evil laugh.....They made decisions they thought could maximize profit. Didn't always work out for them I am sure.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:45 am 
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ian5555 wrote:
jamiwa3 wrote:
Because their strategy for the line's success was to have a core group of people buy everything they made, yet they didn't care that it was impossible to find several figures.

I disagree and most certainly not when this wave came out.

Hey, I'm just going by their words. As we have seen in the past, their words don't necessarily match their actions, so you could be right.

ian5555 wrote:
I swear it's like people think Mattel is sitting back in a board room twisting their mustaches, thinking about ways to screw their customers while laughing about it afterwards with some evil laugh.....They made decisions they thought could maximize profit.

I don't think Mattel was deliberately trying to screw their customers. I just think they didn't care that much. Batman, Superman and the Flash were on the shelves, so I believe they said, "meh, someone will buy those guys, who cares about the C-listers".

But I'm not sure how "sell(ing) action figures to kids" and "maximiz(ing) profit" are mutually exclusive with poor distribution and limited supply of those figures.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:15 am 
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I was just kinda joking around about the backroom meeting but I think at some point with the line your original statement was correct and that they should have been thinking of the line as a collector line as opposed to a kids line. But, that way of thinking is most likely not in their business plan, get the kids they are the bigger customer group is most likely the mindset and it's a pretty smart one in most cases. I think that did though to a certain degree but they were always making decisions to get those A listers in there and I guess I can kind of see that.

I do think to get repacks of Batman, Wonder Woman and others to be a bit much though for the final 6 packs (*gasp" Ian actually busted on Mattel a bit) especially when sold on Matty. I think putting a few of the rarer figures in there would have gone a LONG way with the fans. Unfortunately that didn't happen so here we are, hard to find figures in a line and my point is a pretty normal occurrence throughout the years.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:00 pm 
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ian5555 wrote:
...so here we are, hard to find figures in a line and my point is a pretty normal occurrence throughout the years.

That is unfortunately the case. I'm sure to stumble across Volcana one day. Oh well, Vandal Savage should be arriving at my house in a week.

ian5555 wrote:
I was just kinda joking around about the backroom meeting...

I actually do think they have their meetings in their headquarters in the side of a mountain, carved in the shape of ToyGuru's head!

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Angel "Not Fade Away".

As a standalone series finale for Angel: Outstanding.

As the final live-action Buffyverse project probably ever: Terrible.

Edit: Somebody said Veronica Mars. Really? That wasn't even a good SEASON finale much less a good series one. You might as well put Heroes on the best list while you're at it. </snark>

As for JLU, you can try to say Epilogue is the series finale in your head but the actual series finale was Alive/Destroyer. Great episode but not in "best finale of all time" territory.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:33 pm 
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red Ricky wrote:
The ramifications were all the black & white scenes in Terry's mind, as he was working through the information. In the end, these are men of few words. Bruce knew. Terry finally figured it out. Life goes on. But trust me, if you hated this twist; you'll hate the one in the "new" Batman Beyond comics. Honestly, it's as if the writers never saw the cartoons. (It boggles the mind!)


The ramifications were nothing. Nothing changed. It ended up being a major twist that did nothing and had no effect on anything. It was an entirely self-contained bit of drama and for no real reason. It was also stupid. But I digress...

I still liked Batman Beyond. I still liked the episode where the league interacted with the JL Beyond. And the part of that episode with Bruce's Batman was beautifully done. So, at least there was that.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:50 am 
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ian5555 wrote:
No, it really didn't because I don't see what the big deal is. So it was a hard to find figure, so what? It's nothing new in the action figure world and what you posted is nothing I haven't read before in the last few years except for the Penguin comparison which you couldn't possibly back up the claim anyway. The point is sometimes people just get to figures before you do, companies distribute figures based on selling patterns or don't order as many. Sometimes the manufacturer (as in this case) decided that maybe Batman would sell better than Volcana. Yes, yes I know everyone likes to point the finger at Mattel and wag it at them and blame them for missing out on a figure. This is quite the popular thing to do these days.

There are plenty of action figure lines out there with hard to find characters . It happens all the time and has been going on for decades.

Scratch from TMNT
Vision for Marvel Universe
Yak Face from Star Wars
Night Force for Gi Joe
Cyborg from Super Powers

just to name a few.

The only reason this is such a "big deal" is that she is the only figure really from those few waves that was not released again. If people remember Dead Shot, Star Sapphire, Obsidian and Big Barda were ALL like Volcana at one point until they were released again as singles or in a six pack in Obsidian's case.

Got my shipment confirmation for VS...sweet :)


You just haven't been listening all this time....lol

Some of those other toys shouldn't even be in this comparison. All the Power of the Force figures from Star Wars were pretty rare for that matter. It was the last of the line, stores didn't want to carry them anymore. Kind of like these JLU figures that we are getting now. But there was much less a production run of everything bitd & for the most part they were toys that everyone opened & played with. It was before the collector craze, Same thing goes for the other figures mentioned. Wasn't Yak Face rare because Kenner had to stop making him since he resembled Joe Kool the camel? I guarantee if the Star Wars line continued, Kenner would have repackaged & rereleased all of those figures in the next series of figures. They did it with everything besides the Blue Snaggletooth since he was an error & not really even supposed to come out.

ian5555 wrote:
I do think to get repacks of Batman, Wonder Woman and others to be a bit much though for the final 6 packs (*gasp" Ian actually busted on Mattel a bit) especially when sold on Matty. I think putting a few of the rarer figures in there would have gone a LONG way with the fans. Unfortunately that didn't happen so here we are, hard to find figures in a line and my point is a pretty normal occurrence throughout the years.


But if you recall these were supposed to goto retail. Since it has been a staple for Mattel to rerelease the original 7 multiple times they were included. It just sucks that at these prices we are still buying more Batman, Supernan, Wonder Woman, etc...... When this line became a " collector " line like the claimed. They should have knocked that crap off.


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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:47 am 
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Clayface wrote:
You just haven't been listening all this time....lol

Some of those other toys shouldn't even be in this comparison. All the Power of the Force figures from Star Wars were pretty rare for that matter. It was the last of the line, stores didn't want to carry them anymore. Kind of like these JLU figures that we are getting now. But there was much less a production run of everything bitd & for the most part they were toys that everyone opened & played with. It was before the collector craze, Same thing goes for the other figures mentioned. Wasn't Yak Face rare because Kenner had to stop making him since he resembled Joe Kool the camel? I guarantee if the Star Wars line continued, Kenner would have repackaged & rereleased all of those figures in the next series of figures. They did it with everything besides the Blue Snaggletooth since he was an error & not really even supposed to come out.

ian5555 wrote:
I do think to get repacks of Batman, Wonder Woman and others to be a bit much though for the final 6 packs (*gasp" Ian actually busted on Mattel a bit) especially when sold on Matty. I think putting a few of the rarer figures in there would have gone a LONG way with the fans. Unfortunately that didn't happen so here we are, hard to find figures in a line and my point is a pretty normal occurrence throughout the years.


But if you recall these were supposed to goto retail. Since it has been a staple for Mattel to rerelease the original 7 multiple times they were included. It just sucks that at these prices we are still buying more Batman, Supernan, Wonder Woman, etc...... When this line became a " collector " line like the claimed. They should have knocked that crap off.


ROFL seriously bud, you aren't saying anything that hasn't been rehashed about 100 times in the last 3-4 years. The Power of the Force comparison actually would be most accurate. When those purple carded 3 packs came out the cartoon had ended and retail were most likely skeptical and getting "out" of the line. The cartoon ended in 2006 and those were somewhere late 2006 or early 2007 I think. Pretty sure right after that wave or one or two more it turned into a Target exclusive.

Yes I know the last packs were slated for retail and it is good business practice to put Batman, Superman, GL, Flash in packs as much as possible. Why settle for just on small niche group of collectors when you can get a kid every now and then that sees Batman and wants it? The collectors are going to buy the pack anyway. It just kind of sucked that it worked out that way for the final packs but at retail I completely agree with what they did.


LOL @ Jamiwa3 statement about the mountain and TG. I totally pictured that btw....

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:07 am 
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ian5555 wrote:
So it was a hard to find figure, so what? It's nothing new in the action figure world and what you posted is nothing I haven't read before in the last few years except for the Penguin comparison which you couldn't possibly back up the claim anyway.

Which part of the Penguin claim would be hard to back up? Most of what he said reflects my experience, except that I never remember seeing any of them on pegs. Scalpers in this area were totally rabid at that time, particularly with the rarer BTAS villains.

It may surprise you, but I actually agree with you about Volcana. She was a chase figure. It happens all the time, it's part of the hobby. Maybe it's easy for me to say that because I got lucky and found one at Target, but it seemed to me that she showed up (albeit in small numbers) more or less all over the country. And it's true that Mattel hadn't reached the "we need everyone to buy everything" phase of their JLU strategy yet.

I thought the situation with the 2 rare 6-packs was much more frustrating, because as many of us can attest to, they only shipped to about half the country.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:39 am 
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Fone Bone wrote:
Angel "Not Fade Away".

As a standalone series finale for Angel: Outstanding.

As the final live-action Buffyverse project probably ever: Terrible.

I’m paraphrasing but Orson Wells famously said that “a happy ending, depends, of course, on where you stop your story.”

In the case of Angel, there was never going to be a satisfying ending. In Angel, if things got “too happy”, you felt something was definitely off or not true. So, as a writer, your other two options to end the series were… Angel finally dies… or the War goes On. (I don't think the "becoming human" thing was going to go anywhere.) So yes, I liked that ending. Personally, I would’ve “cut away” mid-fight instead of "just before"; but that’s just me.

But as I said before, I didn’t like other things. I mentioned the Wesley thing; and now I remembered the Lindsey thing. But all in all, it was a memorable finale. And I think it was better than the X-Files ending. And if that show came back after so many years... so can the Buffyverse. Specially after that Whedon/Avengers "flop".

Fone Bone wrote:
As for JLU, you can try to say Epilogue is the series finale in your head but the actual series finale was Alive/Destroyer. Great episode but not in "best finale of all time" territory.

Wow! So it’s not enough that I said I knew Epilogue wasn’t the Series Finale… It’s not enough that you restated it as if I didn’t know better… But now I must “fix” the way I think because you don’t like it and told me to? Really??? Are you serious? Well, to quote Dwayne Johnson “It really doesn’t matter what you think!!!” The fact of the matter is that I liked it, and still think of it as the series finale. And according to Bruce Timm, it was meant to be the series Finale. And that’s good enough for me. But good luck “fixing” that.

Fone Bone wrote:
Edit: Somebody said Veronica Mars. Really? That wasn't even a good SEASON finale much less a good series one. You might as well put Heroes on the best list while you're at it. </snark>

Well, that's my opinion. Things were never “neat” on Veronica Mars and the only constants were Power & Corruption. I feel that the last two episodes summarized the series without the burden of a yearlong mystery. People may not like it, but it's as valid (or invalid) opinion as yours or everyone's elses.

You see... the thing is... people are posting about "Series Engings" they liked, because... well... they want to share what made them happy. They don't want to build a concensus, or a greatest list of all time, and they certainly don't want to be criticized for liking what they like. But, if you still feel the need to want to fix that... I guess the only sensible thing is for us to enter "The Octagon" and have it out. Whoever's left standing over a puddle of the other guy's blood, was clearly "right" all along. :roll:

Backward Galaxy wrote:
red Ricky wrote:
The ramifications were all the black & white scenes in Terry's mind, as he was working through the information.


The ramifications were nothing. Nothing changed. It ended up being a major twist that did nothing and had no effect on anything.

This is were you and I differ. I think there was character development in Terry coming to terms with who he was and where he was headed. Yes, the status quo didn't change. Well... aside from Terry deciding to marry Dana Tan instead or leaving her. But regardless, I still feel there was a lot of "personal growth". Terry dealt with his "personal drama"... he dealt with the age ol'e question of "Nature vs. Nurture"... and for the first time it was clear, in his eyes (and ours), that he wasn't "just another soldier". I mean, if you look at the history of the series... they made a point of showing how (at this particular crossroads) all the "heirs aparent" left. Plus, long time Batman fans always had a hard time "accepting" Terry. Some fans saw him as a glorified Robin (Bat-Boy they called him.) Others eventually came to accept him and the question became... "what changed your mind? when did you accept him?" Either way, and regarless of where people stood in this debate, the Episode did something besides tying together the Timmverse's Past, Present & Future. It gave Terry Legitimacy. And whether people came to accept it or not, Terry Mcginnis was a legit Batman... a permanent Batman... the one that would carry on after Bruce died.

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Essential JLU:...1. Jax-Ur...2. Robin (Grayson)...3. Trickster...4. Power Girl...5. Spectre
...6. Chronos...7. Killer Croc w/BabyDoll...8. Felix Faust...9. Poison Ivy...10. Deathstroke
Bonus:...Starfire, Steppenwolf w/Desaad, the Joker's Jokerz


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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:27 am 
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red Ricky wrote:
This is were you and I differ. I think there was character development in Terry coming to terms with who he was and where he was headed. Yes, the status quo didn't change. Well... aside from Terry deciding to marry Dana Tan instead or leaving her. But regardless, I still feel there was a lot of "personal growth". Terry dealt with his "personal drama"... he dealt with the age ol'e question of "Nature vs. Nurture"... and for the first time it was clear, in his eyes (and ours), that he wasn't "just another soldier". I mean, if you look at the history of the series... they made a point of showing how (at this particular crossroads) all the "heirs aparent" left. Plus, long time Batman fans always had a hard time "accepting" Terry. Some fans saw him as a glorified Robin (Bat-Boy they called him.) Others eventually came to accept him and the question became... "what changed your mind? when did you accept him?" Either way, and regarless of where people stood in this debate, the Episode did something besides tying together the Timmverse's Past, Present & Future. It gave Terry Legitimacy. And whether people came to accept it or not, Terry Mcginnis was a legit Batman... a permanent Batman... the one that would carry on after Bruce died.


I don't feel that Terry gained legitimacy because of his lineage. What he gained was a more convoluted backstory. And any fan who only accepted Terry as Batman because of some twist that came in after the series was already over wasn't being fair to the show or the character. What made Terry a legitimate and worthy heir to the mantle was what he did and accomplished as a hero. If anything, the twist might cheapen his legitimacy because it feels less earned. Once again, it's all about Bruce Wayne and how remarkable he is in every ridiculous way, right down to his genetics. This is the same exaggerated mentality people have when they say he can beat Superman in a fight. It's the same exaggerated mentality that allows him to avoid Darkseid's beams in Destroyer when supposedly no one has ever done that in the history of ever. And it's just plain nonsense.

Bruce is special. We get it and we love him for it. But he doesn't need to be Superman. The story is special enough already, and so is Terry's.

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JLU needs: Barda, rare Secret Society & Legends of the League 6-pks, Lobo, Volcana, Cyborg


Last edited by Backward Galaxy on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SEPTEMBER 17th - JLU Vandal Savage 3-pack
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:42 am 
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Backward Galaxy wrote:
red Ricky wrote:
This is were you and I differ. I think there was character development in Terry coming to terms with who he was and where he was headed. Yes, the status quo didn't change. Well... aside from Terry deciding to marry Dana Tan instead or leaving her. But regardless, I still feel there was a lot of "personal growth". Terry dealt with his "personal drama"... he dealt with the age ol'e question of "Nature vs. Nurture"... and for the first time it was clear, in his eyes (and ours), that he wasn't "just another soldier". I mean, if you look at the history of the series... they made a point of showing how (at this particular crossroads) all the "heirs aparent" left. Plus, long time Batman fans always had a hard time "accepting" Terry. Some fans saw him as a glorified Robin (Bat-Boy they called him.) Others eventually came to accept him and the question became... "what changed your mind? when did you accept him?" Either way, and regarless of where people stood in this debate, the Episode did something besides tying together the Timmverse's Past, Present & Future. It gave Terry Legitimacy. And whether people came to accept it or not, Terry Mcginnis was a legit Batman... a permanent Batman... the one that would carry on after Bruce died.


Terry didn't gain legitimacy because of his lineage. He gained a convoluted backstory. And any fan who only accepts Terry as Batman because of some twist that comes in after the series is already over wasn't being fair to the show or the character. What made Terry a legitimate and worthy heir to the mantle was what he did and accomplished as a hero. If anything, the twist might cheapen his legitimacy because it feels less earned. Once again, it's all about Bruce Wayne and how remarkable he is in every ridiculous way, right down to his genetics. This is the same exaggerated mentality people have when they say he can beat Superman in a fight. It's the same exaggerated mentality that allows him to avoid Darkseid's beams in Destroyer when supposedly no one has ever done that in the history of ever. And it's just plain nonsense.


Considering that Batman is generally depicted as having access to kryptonite whenever he wants, he could beat Superman, but so could anyone else who had some.


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