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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Clayface wrote:
Let's say Mattel needed to sell 1000 pieces of this YJ set for it to become viable for the presale to go through. OK, that obviously didn't happen. So by funtime's statement if prototypes were to go on ebay they would sell for 100's or 1000's of dollars. Which is most likely true. So his statement is, why not just by them from Mattel for $60 now? This theory is so far fetched!



Yeah, if it's so "far-fetched" then why did Mattel even offer this Pre-Order in the first place? They're just goofing off?

And it's not my "theory" and it's not even what I'm saying. I don't think I'm saying Mattel should make overly-expensive action figures because I see big auctions on ebay. That would pretty silly. I was just pointing out that there's probably some potential demand there (in the YJ Case: Finishing a team) and collectors will be there in the way they aren't for a $40 Green Lantern Green Man that was in the movie for 2.5 seconds. Not to mention there's those characters that fans are always mentioning they want.

Geez, I'm just brainstorming ideas so Mattycollector is a place where they deliver the exact stuff collectors want so you 're not buying "3 packs that I didn't want" or "all the money I wasted buying crap I didn't want" . I just thought there is some solid ideas out there, I'm not some big advocate. If people will spend $50 to get a JLU 3-pack just to get one unreleased figure (I think that's how it went. Sorry, I don't collect JLU) why is it so awful to think maybe that demand will be there for Marvel Select type figures or something else special? Again, I know people are stretched, I am too. But people buy $100 statues, omnibuses and stuff. Maybe it's a stretch to think people (A minority?) would pre-order nice detailed deluxe DC figures that are nice but not Hot Toys level, but I thought I'd try.

No one's going to force you to buy a $50 Doomsday figure. Fine , don't buy it. I don't care. I'm just making a suggestion that they test the waters like they already do with other products or try a consumer poll first. And if this 2-pack really was their test, well, I guess that's it.


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:23 pm 
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funtime3 wrote:
You're not going to get Granny Goodness and Doomsday in the subscription. You're just not. But a preorder like this could possibly make it possible. People are willing to pay crazy-a#*% prices for rare figures on ebay and custom figures but I wonder if fans are hesitant to pay Mattel crazy-a#*% prices for made-to-order figures for collectors?
This 2-pack in a way , was a test. Now they can say "we tried that option, and fans just weren't blah blah"


What I'm saying is you stated people buying ebay expensive figures on ebay all the time. I took that as the prototypes that they are paying 100's or 1000's of dollars for. So you stated why can't they purchase these figures that Mattel is making " made to order " Well I'm just stating that the people buying those figures on ebay are such a small minority that they really don't even count for any equation. If there was 1000's of people bidding on those $500 prototypes, then it would be different. But there is only a handful of people. If Mattel's preorder quota was only 100, then those 15 to 20 people that will pay any amount for a figure would come into the equation. But I feel that the quota was in the 1000's that needed to be purchased. 15 people is not a very big percentage of that number, so you really can't account for those people by mentioning them. They are loud but definitely not numerous! lol

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:04 am 
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Well, there's nothing here in what I said that was shady. In my heart, I was just pointing to demand. I wasn't trying to say Mattel should make fancy made-to-order figures to satiate ebayers and custom figures commissioners ONLY. I'm saying Mattel should do it becuase it would be good thing to do - atleast try out - in the Mattycollector environment. Especially since they have the DC license and people might stop buying or go to DC Collectibles if they don't try some exciting things.

I was only pointing to high ebay prices to show that , despite the crappy economy, people will pay a lot for really nice things that they really want. And I'm not talking about a Miss Martian with an outfit no one likes, a Death figure that doesn't fit with their 6-inch collection, and a Green lantern frog that was in the movie for 2 seconds. Good stuff. That people really want.

Just because 2 rich guys are in a bidding war over a $500 JLU figure, it doesn't mean only 2 people in the world want that figure. Maybe 100 do. 500. 1000. They're just not engaged at that high price at ebay at that time.

bnjmnrlyr says that prices are too high and everyone cheers... but c'mon, do you think I want everyone to pay higher prices? No! I'm not evil! :) I mean , I agree. Prices should be lower at retail. And value too.

But Mattycollector could be a place where they try something new- maybe after DCIE dissolves- and offer highly demanded stuff, maybe made-to-order. And that stuff...Yes...would be a little more expensive. Maybe prohibitively higher. But that's why they should test it first. Offer one REALLY NICE figure for Preorder (or even just a poll first) and see how it goes. (I'm thinking Lobo or Swamp thing quality and size). Don't offer two retail rejects with cartoony faces that are a problem for some people. I think that product was very good myself, It's just not a BIG majority-pleaser. They make fancy "Majority-pleasing" products for SDCC. Why not try one for Matty Collector and just make a one time Preorder and see how it goes?

I KNOW there's logistics. The 4H have schedules. Mattel has schedules. taking money up front issues. But they've tried all kinds of wacky stuff...with NO GUARANTEE OF SALES. This is just a possibility. That's what we fans do on message boards. dream big!


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:30 am 
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funtime3 wrote:
Well, there's nothing here in what I said that was shady. In my heart, I was just pointing to demand. I wasn't trying to say Mattel should make fancy made-to-order figures to satiate ebayers and custom figures commissioners ONLY. I'm saying Mattel should do it becuase it would be good thing to do - atleast try out - in the Mattycollector environment. Especially since they have the DC license and people might stop buying or go to DC Collectibles if they don't try some exciting things.

I was only pointing to high ebay prices to show that , despite the crappy economy, people will pay a lot for really nice things that they really want. And I'm not talking about a Miss Martian with an outfit no one likes, a Death figure that doesn't fit with their 6-inch collection, and a Green lantern frog that was in the movie for 2 seconds. Good stuff. That people really want.

Just because 2 rich guys are in a bidding war over a $500 JLU figure, it doesn't mean only 2 people in the world want that figure. Maybe 100 do. 500. 1000. They're just not engaged at that high price at ebay at that time.

bnjmnrlyr says that prices are too high and everyone cheers... but c'mon, do you think I want everyone to pay higher prices? No! I'm not evil! :) I mean , I agree. Prices should be lower at retail. And value too.

But Mattycollector could be a place where they try something new- maybe after DCIE dissolves- and offer highly demanded stuff, maybe made-to-order. And that stuff...Yes...would be a little more expensive. Maybe prohibitively higher. But that's why they should test it first. Offer one REALLY NICE figure for Preorder (or even just a poll first) and see how it goes. (I'm thinking Lobo or Swamp thing quality and size). Don't offer two retail rejects with cartoony faces that are a problem for some people. I think that product was very good myself, It's just not a BIG majority-pleaser. They make fancy "Majority-pleasing" products for SDCC. Why not try one for Matty Collector and just make a one time Preorder and see how it goes?

I KNOW there's logistics. The 4H have schedules. Mattel has schedules. taking money up front issues. But they've tried all kinds of wacky stuff...with NO GUARANTEE OF SALES. This is just a possibility. That's what we fans do on message boards. dream big!


I get what you're saying. And I agree somewhat. They really need to try some new tactics because status quo just won't cut it much longer. Problem is, the same old line will be used. "We tried (insert product here) before and fans just didn't go for it." It's like what TG said on the matty forums once when somebody asked about bringing back the Titans go line. His response was something to the effect of that since YJ and JLU are pretty much dead, obviously people don't want animated DC product. That's not exact, but that was the gist I took from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:50 am 
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Agreed, and Mattel pretty much coasts on revenue from their more lucrative toy lines but I have this feeling that DC Entertainment/Warner knuckled down on them a little bit, hence TG has been a little extra contrite and friendly this past year. Also , whether there was a mandate or not, There's the new way of doing things at retail. Hence, all the New-52 stuff, Big name characters and video game stuff with mass appeal at retail.

There was a lot of swagger from them about Green Lantern at retail and they probably made some big money, but from our perspective it was not successful , i think I can safely say. ( except for GL Classics. People like those. If you could actually FIND Kyle Rayner).

And then TG , later on, much later on, was contrite about DCIH.

And, y'know, overall I agree with this new direction. I think the pegs should have Hawkmans, and Batmans and Superstuff and batstuff. I was always really disgusted with Wave 18. I thought it was just the most self-indulgent wave. That's great that you watched this cartoon in the 80's but a 12 year old kid doesn't care who El Dorado is. Hasbro is selling Iron Mans and Marvel Universe and cool stuff people want and Mattel is stocking El Dorado and Toyman or whatever. Or....so I've heard. I couldn't even find that wave at retail. And I tried.

I think DC Collectibles is saying, hey we'll just do this in house and make better toys ourselves and Mattel can make kiddie Bat-stuff at retail. But, hey now, Mattel can do better, I think.

And that's what DC Collectibles did. They tried something out WITH NO GUARANTEE OF SALES. They made these 3 3/4 inch figures- Con Exclusive ONLY...I mean how daring is that?....just to see how they do. And they're expensive! So I guess Dc Collectibles are just idiots!

I can't stand this myth of Guaranteed Sales. This idea that Mattel doesn't (or shouldn't) make anything without them. It doesn't exist so perfectly in business like that.

That's why they talk about a "baseline". They might sell more, they might sell less...but they're looking for this "baseline".


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:28 pm 
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I'm telling you, once 3-D printers have evolved enough I have a feeling "made to order action figures" will be common place. Hell, companies may only sell printout templates that you directly download and and send to your home 3-D printer. Some day...

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:43 pm 
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tuning4k wrote:
I'm telling you, once 3-D printers have evolved enough I have a feeling "made to order action figures" will be common place. Hell, companies may only sell printout templates that you directly download and and send to your home 3-D printer. Some day...

Pirate codes from China here I come! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Im not understanding why Mattel doesnt look at the kickstarter model for certain action figure lines... Its essentially a preorder-- and multiple buisnesses are starting to go that route.

I mean imagine if some of the "bonus" funding levels include picking one figure from the wave for 5-10K or something like that--

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:04 pm 
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stewbacca wrote:
Im not understanding why Mattel doesnt look at the kickstarter model for certain action figure lines... Its essentially a preorder-- and multiple buisnesses are starting to go that route.

I mean imagine if some of the "bonus" funding levels include picking one figure from the wave for 5-10K or something like that--


Exactly X 100! That's what I'm saying. It's a Pre-order. Thank you for saying that. Kickstarter projects take in the funding (preorder) and then go to production and parts and factory and they pay taxes just like Mattel. It's not some difficult economic equation. And there's some large scale mass-produced products on KS. You may have to wait a year for your figure, but big deal. Some indie films on Kickstarter take a year.

That's what I'm saying , man. Mattycollector = Kickstarter. I'd love to know why not. besides just "logistics".


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:04 am 
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Mattel is a Massive Corporate. That makes change very difficult. They probably think kickstarter would somehow be beneath them.

The main problem is that DC fans are so divided in what they want. Some want DnCA, some 90's, some silver age, some gold age, some Vertigo, some animated properties, etc.

I don't want Vertigo. I didn't want Super Friends. I don't mind new figures of the various Corps, while others want the original JSA from the Golden Age. Once the A and B-listers are made (and all of them have been, repeatedly), nobody can agree who should be made next.

That's the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:31 am 
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I agree with shellhead, the fan base is all over the map with what we want. I personally would only like to see animated properties. Actually Timmverse style only. But I don't want to see Super Powers, Challenge of the Superfriends, or anything else for that matter in Timmverse form. Which I know some people like. I really just want to see Timmverse figures of characters that were actually on STAS. BTAS, TNBA, or JLU & that's it.

So everyone does have a difference in opinion of what they really want to buy.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:52 am 
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Correct. You are a JLU purist. I'm not. I LOVED the shows. Some of the best plots/dialogue DC characters have ever spoken. However, I don't love the style. I prefer the Young Justice animated style over JLU. Someone else might prefer the simplicity of the various Super Friend incarnations. Others like DCD's artist inspired choices. And so on (I liked the Alex Ross Justice figures, but the Ed Mcguiness line was too cartoony for me).

Mattel just can't win.

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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Shellhead wrote:
Mattel is a Massive Corporate. That makes change very difficult. They probably think kickstarter would somehow be beneath them.


No, They did do a Kickstarter. They basically just did one with the YJ 2-pack sans individual funding goals. It didn't meet the goal , it didn't get funded.

Now, they did it with a product that wasn't a homerun. MY POINT is, what if they offer a homerun? or atleast a base-clearing triple? A beautiful, 100% sculpted Classic DC figure, ala Lobo and Swamp Thing, That almost everybody wants, sortof Marvel select quality and size, that can be comfortably integrated into people's DCUC collection? They can do a poll if they need to. This is something that can't be offered in the subscription. The 4H can get their hands dirty on something amazing.

You don't like it, you don't have to buy it. Nobody is forcing you.

Y'know, I'm offering solutions that any free-market lover should be slobbering over. Your dollar votes. If it's not good enough for you, it fails in the market. There's no such thing as making you go to San Diego or buying garbage to get a C+C part.

Clayface wrote:
I agree with shellhead, the fan base is all over the map with what we want. I personally would only like to see animated properties. Actually Timmverse style only. But I don't want to see Super Powers, Challenge of the Superfriends, or anything else for that matter in Timmverse form. Which I know some people like. I really just want to see Timmverse figures of characters that were actually on STAS. BTAS, TNBA, or JLU & that's it.

So everyone does have a difference in opinion of what they really want to buy.


Fine, you only want JLU timmverse stuff. but I've been talking about 6-inch figures in this case, so what's up?

So Mattel shouldn't make a certain toy because there's so many different views on what people want? I don't understand. When has that been an issue? They shouldn't have made Swamp Thing last summer because there might have been a couple of people out there that wanted Black Lantern Swamp Thing?

They could do a pre-order for a JLU thing too, y'know, but I thought JLU collectors pretty much got everything they wanted from the show? Or am i wrong? And honestly, I'm talking about something nice. A Homerun. Sculpted by the 4H. Not putting JLU down but, y'know what I mean.

I just think DC Classics has still held it's demand (although I think it's waning due to cost) and that's why I use it as an example. I assume JLU's demand is down (due to what TG has said). That's why I seem to never agree with people here on Mattycollector's first 2-packs. DCUC was only rising in popularity when they took the those 2-packs off the site. If you wanted one, there was no place for it . You had to spend $80 on ebay. supply was not meeting demand. In business, demand does not begin on 9 am on sale day and end in an hour. But sometimes , I think in Mattycollector's bizarre world, it does.

I think my ideas are well thought out and rational, if people aren't agreeing with me on a little bit of what I'm saying, then I think they're doing it on purpose. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:29 pm 
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You've got some good points about trying different stuff; I think the problem for Mattel is that every character is unique and has different demand attached to them. An oversized Doomsday figure is probably not equal to an oversized Granny Goodness for example. I think Mattel wants a very simple metric, i.e. He-Man will sell twice as much as Skeletor, and other characters will be half of Skeletor's sales. Something really easy like that. Collectors' wants aren't that easily quantified however, and neither are DC's characters. Even among DC's A-list there is a huge variation in demand. That variation only gets bigger when you get to the more obscure characters.


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 Post subject: Re: Young Justice 2-Pack Pre-Order Canceled by Matty
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:26 pm 
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funtime3 wrote:
So Mattel shouldn't make a certain toy because there's so many different views on what people want? I don't understand. When has that been an issue?

I think it's problem because the number of people that buy any of these DC figures/lines isn't all that huge to begin with. It's a small (well too small for Mattel's taste) number that is constantly being divided into smaller and smaller groups. They have to have something that literally everyone wants. Not just 1/2 or even 3/4. And after the A-listers... it starts to fall apart and just like DanMan said even they aren't always a guarantee anymore.

It's not even just divisions among lines or styles. So many divisions within each line or style as well.


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