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 Post subject: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:18 pm 
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We have all heard Mattel say they aren't getting the numbers they need to push certain figures through in the sub.

We all hear collectors bemused and turned off by some of the reveals and character choices made by Mattel for the sub. (looking at you wrong Red Hood)

We all offer up which characters and versions we want and would gladly throw our money at them for.

So how does this sound....

Mattel tell us that the Matty line is aimed at collectors and not the Mom and Kid market, (and to be fair, only collectors really know about it due to the cloaked veil of secrecy Mattel call advertising). So Collectors should be asked what they want to see made, and Mattel should take note.

I feel that if Mattel ran a poll via toy forums (similar to how we get the ask Matty Q&A's), putting out, say 50 names and versions of DC characters available for them to make via WB/DC, and waited for the results to come in from collectors, then they would know who we want to BUY and who to MAKE!!

They could take a mixture of the 20 most popular and make those the sub figures for that year. They should lock in those choices, tell fans what is planned for the whole year, and I'm sure they would get more people buying the sub as due to the voting, there would be virtually no dud's in the line up.

I know one mans want is another mans waste of a slot, but working from a poll of collectors most wanted would mean even if your top choice wasn't in the line up, a few of what you want would be. The poll would offer the characters that everyone agrees need priority.

I look at a toy line like its a buffet, if you know theres no rush and you can stay till your full, you'll happily have a bit of everything. But if you know your going to get asked to leave at any point, your only going to load your plate with the stuff you really like. So when you have a toy line with an uncertain future, you know you want to get the big guns out first and load the filler at the back of the line.

What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:50 pm 
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If the fanbase wasn't so fractured, I'd agree with you.

I doubt you could get the majority of DCUC collectors to agree on a remaining top five, much less a top ten.

Still, I'd like to see them try something new. The "sight unseen" sub isn't going to last much longer, I fear.

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:57 pm 
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They could give us a group of like 25 figures. Let us vote. Top votes get made. To a certain extent, at least we could then say "the people have spoken"

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:43 pm 
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The problem with the "vote on all [or most of] the figures in the sub" idea is that they have a budget. So assuming that they were able to get clearance from DC to do any version of any character that they wanted, they'd also have to make it so that each choice that they put in the poll was budgeted for the same amount of tooling, etc. That limits who they could include in the poll and probably completely eliminates a lot of the big wants.

Shell is right - it's just too fractured to ever do more than eke by.


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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:59 pm 
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MoMoney wrote:
The problem with the "vote on all [or most of] the figures in the sub" idea is that they have a budget. So assuming that they were able to get clearance from DC to do any version of any character that they wanted, they'd also have to make it so that each choice that they put in the poll was budgeted for the same amount of tooling, etc. That limits who they could include in the poll and probably completely eliminates a lot of the big wants.

Shell is right - it's just too fractured to ever do more than eke by.


Not necessarily. How would that "budget" part be any different than now? We had tier one (which we reached) that was going to be next to no new tooling, and tier 2 that if we reached, we got some new tooling.

So they give us a list of figures, and we know what we are voting for. A lot of people have said part of their drawback to buying the sub is committing 25+ bucks (after shipping) per figure and not knowing what we get.

How many more would've signed up for Flash, Huntress, etc...had they known they were coming? Had they had a chance? Sure we aren't going to come to a complete resolve on the figure we want (no one will), but it seems that if they give us a decent list to choose from that there would be a high consensus on a certain % of figures, and then some variance after that.

I mean...if we didn't reach a certain spot on the thermometer, we weren't getting new figures, so how would it be any different if they let us vote on the ones we were getting and then people purchased? Ultimately Mattel isn't out anything unless they get the # of subscriptions they need.

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:23 pm 
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This will not work and even if it was offered I wouldn't support it because that means once everyone had their full of the buffet, they will in theory stop buying the sub while those of us who are still wanting our characters will not be numerous enough to support the sub and keep it going. In many ways it is better that they decide and people in the sub realize they may need to buy a few figs they don't want so everyone gets a bit of what they want. I hope to get Pantha, Jericho, Red Star & Phantasm someday but they are not huge wants on the polls (except maybe Jericho) but if one was slipped into the sub it would make Titan fans happy while other characters can still be made that I couldn't care less about (like Batman related characters or Freedom Fighers (except the Ray). They need to keep the new most wanted characters spread out to keep the life of this line afloat. Which is why I'm really surprised they didn't save Huntress to lead the 2014 sub...
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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:02 am 
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Boots Bailey wrote:
This will not work and even if it was offered I wouldn't support it because that means once everyone had their full of the buffet, they will in theory stop buying the sub while those of us who are still wanting our characters will not be numerous enough to support the sub and keep it going. In many ways it is better that they decide and people in the sub realize they may need to buy a few figs they don't want so everyone gets a bit of what they want. I hope to get Pantha, Jericho, Red Star & Phantasm someday but they are not huge wants on the polls (except maybe Jericho) but if one was slipped into the sub it would make Titan fans happy while other characters can still be made that I couldn't care less about (like Batman related characters or Freedom Fighers (except the Ray). They need to keep the new most wanted characters spread out to keep the life of this line afloat. Which is why I'm really surprised they didn't save Huntress to lead the 2014 sub...
Boots


And this is the exact reason I didn't purchase the sub. These "most wanted figures" that are kept to keep the line afloat, and then don't get made when the sub numbers don't get hit in a year or two because everyone gets tired of getting Larfleeze and that horrible Red Hood figure in the sub.

While I know I may be in the minority, but nothing that was revealed at the end of year one, or in year two was even remotely enough to get me to purchase a sub. But say they give everyone a chance to vote for figures? They can still spread it out. Take the top 12 figures and split up 6 this year, 6 next year, keep the voting process...that way...as you say it...people don't get their fill, but they have something to look forward to because they know what is coming.

That's just my .02. Obviously what they have now isn't an overloading success, because they didn't come remotely close to the new tooling. And if they had, then there would have been an issue on what figures, who gets tooled, and you would've had a ton of fans upset because they didn't like the mystery tooled figure that they paid a subscription for, but now hate. You don't have that if everyone knows what's up...up front. The complaining at that point is "well, they aren't making the figures I want because they didn't get enough votes"...and I don't have a problem with that.

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:33 am 
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I almost wonder if they wouldn't be smarter offering smaller niche subs each year.

Maybe JLA in '14
Titans '15
Villains '16
LSH '17
JSA '18
etc.

Each sub would include characters from all eras, team configurations and supporting/ancilliary/cross-overs.

If one year didn't appeal to you, you sit it out, then the next two are exactly what you were hoping for and boom, your back in.

Obviously, it would most likely shrink the candidate pool thus causing a rise in the price per figure (lower production quantity = higher retail price).

My ordering is a hypothetical, and there is no reason you couldn't do a "JLA v JSA sub" year offering 6 basic & 1 oversized figure from each family in a given year (14 figures total plus the "over-arcing bad guy" sub incentive figure)

To be honest though, this is all a moot point for me. I am already exactly what Matty wants for the subs. I'll buy every figure they put out so long as it is DC and from a variety of eras/styles. I even like the version of the Red Hood they are offering up.

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:02 am 
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bnjmnrlyr wrote:
I almost wonder if they wouldn't be smarter offering smaller niche subs each year.

Maybe JLA in '14
Titans '15
Villains '16
LSH '17
JSA '18
etc.

Each sub would include characters from all eras, team configurations and supporting/ancilliary/cross-overs.

If one year didn't appeal to you, you sit it out, then the next two are exactly what you were hoping for and boom, your back in.

Obviously, it would most likely shrink the candidate pool thus causing a rise in the price per figure (lower production quantity = higher retail price).

My ordering is a hypothetical, and there is no reason you couldn't do a "JLA v JSA sub" year offering 6 basic & 1 oversized figure from each family in a given year (14 figures total plus the "over-arcing bad guy" sub incentive figure)

To be honest though, this is all a moot point for me. I am already exactly what Matty wants for the subs. I'll buy every figure they put out so long as it is DC and from a variety of eras/styles. I even like the version of the Red Hood they are offering up.


I used to be like this: I'd buy every figure they put out. But the costs at retail started going up significantly, IMO...and then the quality was garbage.

Mattel doesn't owe me anything. If they never made another action figure I'd be thrilled with what they had made and consider myself blessed to have been able to buy what they put out. But when it comes to their track record (or at least what I'm concerned with). But they throw out a big selection of figures and let us start voting...then split it up between the next year, then each year let us vote (or something along that line)...then the majority speaks volumes. I can't imagine any less would purchase it then already do...because the people that did buy it were going to buy it anyways (like you), and the ones who previous wouldn't have...might get it now because they know what's coming. Mattel can give us the selections to vote for...that way they aren't surprised with high tooling if it doesn't sell what they were hoping. Then if the number is up, maybe have 2 un-named characters that could be completely new tooling. Something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I'm encouraged that so many of you are open to this idea.

I honestly feel that, the same way mattel have been up front with their MOTUC Castle Greyskull pitch, if they treated DCIE that way then they'd see a big swing in collectors picking up future subs.

Mattel know the 30 -50 (or however many) so characters they have available at the time they start putting an assortment together for a sub. But if they let the fans know those characters, and asked for the fans feed back on which they most want from that list, and what versions and on what bucks (so we don't get anymore bigger than they should be characters)... then they could put forward a sub line-up for the year. By showing the 12 figures chosen to be in the line-up, collectors would know straight away if they wanted the sub just by seeing how many of their wants are in it that year.

I feel if people saw a line-up for the year, made up from the most popular choices among collectors, and even if there were only say, 4, 6, or 8 out of that line-up of 12 figures that were their favourites, they would go all in for the sub just like they used to go all in for a wave to get the CnC when the line was at retail.

It's so simple it hurts to think they aren't doing this. I mean it should just be a case of Mattel saying to collectors on the toy sites
"Hi guys, heres a list of figures we are considering based on what we hear you say on the forums and on what we have available from DC at this time. Pick your favourites by so and such a date."
"Hi Mattel, these are our most wanted off your list"
"Thanks guys, based on your feed back, here is our proposed list for next years sub, from Jan right through to December"
"Here's my money Mattel, as many of the ones I voted for from your list are in the sub"

Well, you get the idea...


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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:22 pm 
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While I would love to be able to vote on and have a say for my favorite figures, i really believe that this would mean the death of the line. For those who say they don't owe Mattel anything, that's fine, who does? If you love the fact that we could possibly continue to get a rich variety of DC characters from across the board and all eras then stick with things, it will be interesting. The idea suggested will die once the certain fans get what they want from the buffet and leave the those who supported them in the dust to get figures they hope to see someday.


To give you an idea, here's a list of characters I bought but don't care about but do like the DC Universe as a whole and saw the potential to get certain characters I do love someday. In the meantime I recognized I had to support the line to see that happen. It would be nice to see how some bail (as they already have) once they got their Bat figures, JSA figures and the like.

Figs I didn't care for: (Keep in mind these are great sculpts but don't care for the characters and wish they had been other figs if I would'a had my pick)
Wave 1 - Etrigan, Penguin
Wave 2 - Harley Quinn, long hair Aquaman
Wave 3 - solid wave but I don't particularly care for Solomon Grundy
Wave 4 - Batman Beyond, Gold Cap Atom, WW Artemis
Wave 5 - Black Lightning
Wave 6 - Dr. Impossible, Killer Moth
Wave 7 - Atom Smasher
Wave 8 - Vigilante, Mr. Terrific, Green Parademon
Wave 9 - Guardian, Human Mantis, Wildcat (either version)
Wave 10 - Robotman, Man-Bat (which I know look at as one of their best figures), Forager, Imperiex
Wave 11 - Katma Tui, Shark, Green Steppenwolf, Question, Deadman
Wave 12 - Dr.Midnight, Iron
Wave 13 - Blue Beetle, Blue Devil, Cyclotron, Cheetah (classic), Negative Man
Wave 14 - Kamandi, Gold, Tyr, Hourman
Wave 15 - Batman SC, Starman, Golden Pharoah, Jemm Son of Saturn, Omac, Validus
Wave 16 - Mercury, Jonah Hex, Creeper
Wave 17 - the whole thing (maybe wouldn't resent them if they had spread them out)
Wave 18 - Black Vulcan, Apache Chief, El Dorado
Wave 19 - Golden Age Hawkman, Kobra, Stargirl, Sandman, Golden Age Atom
Wave 20 - SC Sinestro (again), Nekron

One might say I bought a lot of figures I didn't like and that is true but one of the main reasons was in hopes of seeing Fire/Ice, Bloodwynd, Maxima & The Ray made or any of the Titans (main or obscure as I'm a HUGE Titans fan) see the light of day. I came to like most of what I bought from the list above like the Metal Men, Doom Patrol and even Kamandi, whereas I'm still annoyed at having SC Batman, Omac and why couldn't they put the Golden Age Hawkman head with the regular one so we could've had another slot free?

Anyways, I wish people would realize that they are paying so little now for 12-13 figs a year to keep this line alive. Yeah there's gonna be figures that you don't like but that's how we'll all feel now that most of the A & B listers are done and we'd rather get new figures than remakes.
Boots

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:29 am 
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I think this is great, but I still don't see what this has to do with voting? It might be the death of the line if Mattel opens up every character available, but they still have some control by giving us the people we vote for. In that mix there might be the likes of C list guys like Etrigan, etc. It's just we'd know what we were getting before we signed up, which I fail to see how that isn't a win.

At some point this line is going to die. I don't see how voting makes it happen sooner, and IMO it may actually get us some of the figures we want more, buy boosting sales and getting better tooling in the future.

Boots Bailey wrote:
While I would love to be able to vote on and have a say for my favorite figures, i really believe that this would mean the death of the line. For those who say they don't owe Mattel anything, that's fine, who does? If you love the fact that we could possibly continue to get a rich variety of DC characters from across the board and all eras then stick with things, it will be interesting. The idea suggested will die once the certain fans get what they want from the buffet and leave the those who supported them in the dust to get figures they hope to see someday.


To give you an idea, here's a list of characters I bought but don't care about but do like the DC Universe as a whole and saw the potential to get certain characters I do love someday. In the meantime I recognized I had to support the line to see that happen. It would be nice to see how some bail (as they already have) once they got their Bat figures, JSA figures and the like.

Figs I didn't care for: (Keep in mind these are great sculpts but don't care for the characters and wish they had been other figs if I would'a had my pick)
Wave 1 - Etrigan, Penguin
Wave 2 - Harley Quinn, long hair Aquaman
Wave 3 - solid wave but I don't particularly care for Solomon Grundy
Wave 4 - Batman Beyond, Gold Cap Atom, WW Artemis
Wave 5 - Black Lightning
Wave 6 - Dr. Impossible, Killer Moth
Wave 7 - Atom Smasher
Wave 8 - Vigilante, Mr. Terrific, Green Parademon
Wave 9 - Guardian, Human Mantis, Wildcat (either version)
Wave 10 - Robotman, Man-Bat (which I know look at as one of their best figures), Forager, Imperiex
Wave 11 - Katma Tui, Shark, Green Steppenwolf, Question, Deadman
Wave 12 - Dr.Midnight, Iron
Wave 13 - Blue Beetle, Blue Devil, Cyclotron, Cheetah (classic), Negative Man
Wave 14 - Kamandi, Gold, Tyr, Hourman
Wave 15 - Batman SC, Starman, Golden Pharoah, Jemm Son of Saturn, Omac, Validus
Wave 16 - Mercury, Jonah Hex, Creeper
Wave 17 - the whole thing (maybe wouldn't resent them if they had spread them out)
Wave 18 - Black Vulcan, Apache Chief, El Dorado
Wave 19 - Golden Age Hawkman, Kobra, Stargirl, Sandman, Golden Age Atom
Wave 20 - SC Sinestro (again), Nekron

One might say I bought a lot of figures I didn't like and that is true but one of the main reasons was in hopes of seeing Fire/Ice, Bloodwynd, Maxima & The Ray made or any of the Titans (main or obscure as I'm a HUGE Titans fan) see the light of day. I came to like most of what I bought from the list above like the Metal Men, Doom Patrol and even Kamandi, whereas I'm still annoyed at having SC Batman, Omac and why couldn't they put the Golden Age Hawkman head with the regular one so we could've had another slot free?

Anyways, I wish people would realize that they are paying so little now for 12-13 figs a year to keep this line alive. Yeah there's gonna be figures that you don't like but that's how we'll all feel now that most of the A & B listers are done and we'd rather get new figures than remakes.
Boots

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:41 am 
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Yeah the fact is, even with the voting there would still be less popular characters, but they would be the least popular from a list of our most wanted!!

The waves worked because people were mostly all in, either because they wanted the CnC or they brought a whole case from an online toy store. The sub would work the same if people were given the heads up of who is in the sub for that whole year, and even more so if they knew they could influence who'd be in it.

As Bunger said, the line will die out at some point, so it makes sense to try and fill out peoples collections with the characters they feel should've been made by now. Then, if the renewed sales and interest are there, then start filling it with the more obscure.

The line works because it gives us the DC Universe in one cohesive look, but if we don't get the characters we want made in time, we'll have to hope we can fill the gaps with figures from who ever tries their hand at a DC 6" line once Mattels done, and that won't be the same.

A company asking customers what they want to buy, then making those items, then selling them to those same, happy that they got what they wanted customers is just about the best business model I think you can work on.

Mattel just needs to look at who they can make, ask us who we want, draw up their list from those details and then tell us what to look forward to. Simple as!!


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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:40 am 
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Agreed. I might lean the way Boots is talking if we were talking about the line from day one, being completely online with zero figures made. But we got 21 (essentially) waves made. And now the line is basically 100% subscription based (who really knows what we'll see at retail). It's harder for Mattel to throw surprise figures at us that we want, and then when they do getting the variations we want.

I think giving us a certain amount of figures to choose from and then telling us they'll spread it out over a 2 year window is a good way to boost sub sales, and still stretch it out. Each year they add some more and say "2013 and 2014...then 2014 and 2015, etc"...so we know what's coming. If they don't get the subscriptions, then we have no one to blame but ourselves for not having toys because we know what's coming.

Like I said...IMO, Mattel is out nothing. They choose figures that are relatively low cost tooling..and say we vote for something that comes out to 10 figures. They also give us some "new tooling" figures to vote for. Then if they hit a certain amount of subscriptions, we know we'll get those. If we don't, then we get the easy to make figures.




elvis8batman wrote:
Yeah the fact is, even with the voting there would still be less popular characters, but they would be the least popular from a list of our most wanted!!

The waves worked because people were mostly all in, either because they wanted the CnC or they brought a whole case from an online toy store. The sub would work the same if people were given the heads up of who is in the sub for that whole year, and even more so if they knew they could influence who'd be in it.

As Bunger said, the line will die out at some point, so it makes sense to try and fill out peoples collections with the characters they feel should've been made by now. Then, if the renewed sales and interest are there, then start filling it with the more obscure.

The line works because it gives us the DC Universe in one cohesive look, but if we don't get the characters we want made in time, we'll have to hope we can fill the gaps with figures from who ever tries their hand at a DC 6" line once Mattels done, and that won't be the same.

A company asking customers what they want to buy, then making those items, then selling them to those same, happy that they got what they wanted customers is just about the best business model I think you can work on.

Mattel just needs to look at who they can make, ask us who we want, draw up their list from those details and then tell us what to look forward to. Simple as!!

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 Post subject: Re: What would make the DCIE sub work???
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:25 am 
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For me, the DCIE sub already "works." We brought in higher numbers than last year, if that thermometer is to be believed. It wasn't enough to get a 100% newly tooled figure, but that doesn't mean things aren't working presently. At the very least, we met the threshold set out by Mattel and as far as that keeps going on an annual basis--and that Mattel still has the inclination to do the figures (I think that's a bigger part than anything)--the sub shouldn't be threatened.

I think it would be good for Mattel to do some polling throughout the year, just to see what the fanbase is thinking.

A lot of people don't like Digital River and won't use them. If Mattel knows this--which they do--then as a corporation, they need to rethink their distribution partner. I've never had a problem *knock on wood* but plenty of the customer base has. That's an issue.


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