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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:12 am 
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I think the sub failed for one simple reason we were shown 3 out of 12 figures, unlike MOTUC which was what half a year. I subbed not knowing but many did not- I hope we can continue the line in some form but if not I think I would like to cancel my MOTUC sub and just be done with all together.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:06 am 
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ToyGuru wrote:
Sorry, I don't care either way but I thought that was funny. :D

I believe the amount of subs for MOTU are probably lower than what is needed to DCIE. Example - MOTU may need 10,000 to reach 100% while DC needs 20,000 to reach 100%. Those numbers are made up but it is an idea to show you what I mean. I do believe I read somewhere years ago that the DC sub requires more subscribers than MOTU. Also like it was mentioned, MOTU has limited exposure, there is one company basically making one set of figures. DC has multiple companies making various kinds of figures for them then factor in that these companies generally makes the same characters. There really is no comparison in popularity, MOTU is nowhere near DC. Even with retail DC had four lines at retail MOS, Imaginext, Batman Unlimitd, and those Target figures and that is not including the other companies producing DC figures, etc.[/quote]

Actually it is the opposite. Motu hit 115% of tier 2. Motu was opporating at tier 2 level since we added beasts and quarterly items.[/quote]
What we need clarification on is whether or not DCIE tier 2 is higher than MOTU?

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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:56 am 
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alcinde4 wrote:
princeofpop98 wrote:
I just want mattel figures. I don't care how or where, just make them and I will buy them.


Without 6" 4H styled DC figures, unfortunately there's nothing left for me to buy from Mattel. :( I've reached saturation with MOTUC, and Young Justice is no more.But I'm not willing to overpay for figures (over $25) to continue collecting them. Whatever Mattel's plan is, I hope it includes (somehow) making the figures affordable even with a much lower production run. If that's not within the realm of possibility, I'll leave it to you truly hardcore collectors (with lot's of expendable income) to keep buying.


This is kind of my train of thought. When the sub started we were a 2 income household. Now we're a single income and I'm a stay at home dad. Because of that I've had to prioritize my collecting. Which is why I couldn't commit to the sub blindly for a 3rd year despite my wife telling me we could make it work. It really hit home when my wife and I reviewed the invoice. The (poor)method of shipping reassured me I made the right choice not renewing. I've said it before I'll say it again.

We are paying priority shipping and getting parcel post service. This just kills paying an increased price for the unreleased figures for me. Hopefully Matty works some magic and finds a way to release them without increasing the cost. If not, I can't miss what a never had. I'd also like to thank ToyGuru for still stopping by. I know that it can't always be easy dealing with the fan's. Let's face it, we are fans and our passion kind of gets the better of us. So we kind of sound a bit of kilter when we let that get the best of us.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:20 am 
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The thing Toyguru forgot to mention is the part about MOTU making them twice the amount of money that DC Products do online.

When you are dealing with massive toy sales attached to a movie like the Dark Knight, it makes sense for Mattel to produce figures because 50% of a $20 million profit is still $10 million (just a random example number--no freakouts on the accuracy of that figure please). When you are dealing with a line like Club Infinite Earths, it's 50% of something extremely lower than that. Probably in the low thousands. Not worth the effort for Mattel.

At least with online collector sales, I guess you can't really blame Mattel for turning their backs on DC and other licensed stuff. Mattel would rather focus on the intellectual property the company actually owns.

So yes, it would take a smaller run of MOTU product to make the line go forward. And that's not even factoring in the marketing bonus of keeping your home grown brand visible on all of the toy collector websites and media out there.

And honestly, DC is probably happy with this arrangement. DC Collectibles handles the collector figures, and Mattel handles the mega movies because they can produce mass toy quantities at a lower price. DC should show some initiative, invest in themselves and handle the entire operation under a new and improved DC Collectibles. Maybe someday.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:14 am 
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I don't think DC is fine with this failing, there are a lot of people LIKE MYSELF who do not collect from DC Direct/Collectibles, I prefer Mattel's base line of figures. I have never been all that impressed with these alternative companies like DCC and Neca, they are not the saving grace for action figures. Just like I prefer ML to MS anyday.

First thing, don't make matters worst by trying to offer the remaining tooled examples at a higher price, that just is going to make Mattel look worse in the eyes of collectors. I buy three of every DCUC and DCIE figure, if I can't afford the multiples then I ain't buying and I am sure other people feel the same way.

Second thing, these will probably come back by demand eventually. When that new 6 inch line fails (another example of a stupid corporate culture where people are forced to come up with stupid new ideas to justify their job) there will be a return of DCIE in some way, retail or online again. The line is too good to just fade away.

Third thing, Mattel needs to invest in this line like they do with MOTU. Yes we know Scott is obsessed with MOTU but MOTU has a short lifespan with its existing history. Just like someone mentioned, Fire and Ice should of been a quarterly two pack or something per the sub. Also I am all for the expanded universe but let's be real Uncle Sam was a joke and so was Kamandi. At the very least choose characters who look cool. People would by Amazing Man just because of how cool he looks. Also where are the villains, this line is hero heavy and that is BORING, enough already. People want the bad dudes too.

Fourth thing, DC needs to back up Mattel and advertise DCIE in their comics, etc. People still want classic costumes. I am fine with the promotion of the new DCnU but not at the expense of 75 years worth of awesome history. See someone has to justify the poor move to DCnU and the lack of support for DCIE shows it. ENOUGH DC, get it clear we want a classic 70's-80's era Superman with more than we want that moronic new version. Oh and Mattel you guys should of invested in a new tooled head and better legs for Superman. The short hair cut was fine for the time but it was substandard to many of the other decent figures from DCUC. It was not a staple figure.

These people need to get up off their collective butts and do what is needed, it isn't that hard. Seriously, cool costumes and stuff would of been great, instead they went the very lazy and boring way, not that it bothered me personally but it cost the end of the line so it does bother me now.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:55 am 
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What I loved about DCUC/DCIE is the consistent style and scale (for the most part) of its figures. I think DC Collectibles' figures are beautiful but they all look too different from one another and have different shapes and sizes. If DC Direct/Collectibles had gone with a consistent look with their figures from the beginning, I would have been all over them.

At this point, I'll take the DC figures however Mattel can release. I know some have suggested they put figures up for a vote and only produce the ones that get enough pre-orders. The issue with that is we would likely no longer get figures with extra tooling like Huntress. Costs of the extra tools are spread out over the line so some have minimal tooling so others can get more. If we vote per figure, all our choices would be minimally-tooled figures. I'd still buy those minimally tooled figures as long as they are appropriate to the character. However, the likes of Zauriel would be out.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:09 am 
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Superpowers1980 wrote:
I don't think DC is fine with this failing, there are a lot of people LIKE MYSELF who do not collect from DC Direct/Collectibles, I prefer Mattel's base line of figures. I have never been all that impressed with these alternative companies like DCC and Neca, they are not the saving grace for action figures. Just like I prefer ML to MS anyday.

First thing, don't make matters worst by trying to offer the remaining tooled examples at a higher price, that just is going to make Mattel look worse in the eyes of collectors. I buy three of every DCUC and DCIE figure, if I can't afford the multiples then I ain't buying and I am sure other people feel the same way.

Second thing, these will probably come back by demand eventually. When that new 6 inch line fails (another example of a stupid corporate culture where people are forced to come up with stupid new ideas to justify their job) there will be a return of DCIE in some way, retail or online again. The line is too good to just fade away.

Third thing, Mattel needs to invest in this line like they do with MOTU. Yes we know Scott is obsessed with MOTU but MOTU has a short lifespan with its existing history. Just like someone mentioned, Fire and Ice should of been a quarterly two pack or something per the sub. Also I am all for the expanded universe but let's be real Uncle Sam was a joke and so was Kamandi. At the very least choose characters who look cool. People would by Amazing Man just because of how cool he looks. Also where are the villains, this line is hero heavy and that is BORING, enough already. People want the bad dudes too.

Fourth thing, DC needs to back up Mattel and advertise DCIE in their comics, etc. People still want classic costumes. I am fine with the promotion of the new DCnU but not at the expense of 75 years worth of awesome history. See someone has to justify the poor move to DCnU and the lack of support for DCIE shows it. ENOUGH DC, get it clear we want a classic 70's-80's era Superman with more than we want that moronic new version. Oh and Mattel you guys should of invested in a new tooled head and better legs for Superman. The short hair cut was fine for the time but it was substandard to many of the other decent figures from DCUC. It was not a staple figure.

These people need to get up off their collective butts and do what is needed, it isn't that hard. Seriously, cool costumes and stuff would of been great, instead they went the very lazy and boring way, not that it bothered me personally but it cost the end of the line so it does bother me now.


I agree with some of your statements-- but some you just head off the deep end..--

I agree DC is not fine with the line failing- as it does mean lost revenue and advertising for them (however the reason this failed is highly due to DC creating the new 52 on a short schedule and screwing over their licensors (not to mention P.O.ing a bunch of fans-- except for Shellhead and his Aquaman and Babs Batgirl fascination :lol: )

And although collectors dont want to pay the higher price- I am fine with "slightly" higher- if I can still cherry pick--- however I dont see collectors balking at not being able to afford to purchase three figures at increased cost.. I dont know many people who buy 2 of the same figure any more, let alone 3 (of a non army builder)-- so this is a very very tiny issue for all of us collectors-- especially the loose figures are better club.

I dont think they will get retailer support if they are absent from the shelves too long (and continue the FU 52 designs)-- and if they did-- they would just go back to the well and start with the BIG 7 again- Look at Hasbro-- Legends died for a little bit and when they came back-- (and although we do get some obscures-- the bulk is still Spidey, Wolvie, Cap, Thor and Iron Man)

Although I understand they should invest more in the DC line then they have-- you explain why they shouldnt in your own comments-- they are not an inhouse property, they get a lower return for their investment because of licensing fees, and if they make MOTU into a household thing again-- that means a mainstream movie, cartoons and other pop culture stuff- and more money in their pockets when they license their own properties to other companys-- all they will ever get is the revenue from the figures in the DC line- maybe pissing off some fans by ending the line-- does save them some expenses in the long run- and although I know we all want what we want-- but if it truly doesnt make business sense so be it-- Not that I agree with how Mattel runs their AF business- but to whoever does it makes sense to them..

Your next statement also shows how splintered we all are-- I bought Uncle Sam -- not because of his comic apperances- but because hes Uncle' freaking' Sam-- and their are no good figures of him-- I think Mattel missed the boat on him- by not pushing him on the WWII /American Legion related sites--He is one of the coolest figures that they have designed and released (and will match up good with the 4 Horseman Eagle figure)-- And I had to look up Amazing Man--I look at him and go -- why would anyone pick up some 70s reject with a day glo god awful costume-if they announced that figure I would think Mattel had gone even more off the deep end than that Red Hood Announcement..- Although I belive every one should agree-- Kamandi just sucks-- (maybe if you packaged him like Prince Adam (and put one of the Manimal guys as the main figure- it might have been passable)-- but as a retail figure -- are you kidding me maybe if this was the 80s and he was in a hair band-- but I think I was still seeing him on the shelves as late as christmas last year..

I do of course agree there should always be more villians (the Marvel Legends villian only wave - was still one of my favorites)

Why should DC give up their paid advertising space advocating you buy some other companys products (and essentially a competiting group since the publishing group is closer to the DC collectibles group than the licensing group)- its up to Mattel to buy that space, not for DC to give it away (they could negotiate a better price for what is being advertised-- once again up to how they do business.)

Also in regards to Superman-- if they never tool another superman figure that would be to soon-- do you really not buy a figure because of the legs? Once again maybe some people dont- -but Im not one of them...

I think it just goes to show-- there are too many issues that even the customer base does not agree with what we want--(well other than no 52 figures)- like that horrible hoody wearing Captain Cold - I just saw at the comic book shop this week.)

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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:30 am 
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New to the boards here, but a long time lurker/reader, especially every year around sub-time. Felt it was finally time to register and weigh in a bit.

First, I don't want to repeat all of the things you all said, but I have subbed from the beginning and am hugely disappointed that the sub is not continuing for this third year. Hopefully, we'll get at least some of the figures offered to us over the next year and it would be nice if Matty gave people who DID sub-in an early access shot at the figures or something like that.

But what I really wanted to say, that I don't think anyone has mentioned on any of the boards I have been on is . . . what about the Four Horsemen moving this line to DCC or someone else with a DC license? I mean, they would have to sort of "start from scratch" because I would imagine that the bucks they created for the DCUC/DCIE are now the intellectual property of Mattel, but that doesn't mean they couldn't reproduce new and improved bucks that would fit right in with the line as it exists.

I would love to see them get hired by DCC or someone else with the explicit task of "continuing" this line at a retail or direct market level.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:32 am 
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I think that DC Entertainment started influencing the DCUC figure selection starting with Wave 17 and the Green Lantern Classics waves. They also influenced the drive to feature NEW 52 and Batman Arkham Video Game characters into the lines that Mattel was offering. Now all of those lines will come to an end at Retail.
DC Universe Classics
Batman Unlimited
DC Unlimited

As for the DC Universe Club Infinite Earths, that was geared for unique characters from the original DC Universe, made for the fans. There were a few minor mess ups, and not everyone is going to like all of the 2nd and 3rd string characters.
Rocket Red - wrong scale for that version of the character. (Blame DC Entertainment)
Red Hood - not the version of the character that fans really wanted.

But they did add figures to expand on some teams like the JSA, Metal Men, and Justice League.

It's a shame that DCIE is not going forward.
Now Mattel will have to sit down with DC Entertainment, WB and Sony to determine what they can plan for the future of these figures.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:43 am 
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I can't help but think of all the characters I'd still love to see in this line.

Geo-Force (I voted for him in a Fan Poll a few years ago)
Weather Wizard (come on, round off the Rogues!)
Indigo-1 (and let's complete the main representatives of the Lantern Corps)
Jade (let's complete Alan Scott's family)
Miss Martian (because you can never have too many green chicks)
Zauriel (be another good use of Hawkman's wings)
And no shortage of Legionnaires. Topping my list would be Element Lad, Sun Boy, and Dawnstar (and there's those wings again).
What the heck, I'd even like to see Ambush Bug.

Well, I'm getting depressed again... :( :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:56 am 
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hunterjax wrote:
New to the boards here, but a long time lurker/reader, especially every year around sub-time. Felt it was finally time to register and weigh in a bit.

First, I don't want to repeat all of the things you all said, but I have subbed from the beginning and am hugely disappointed that the sub is not continuing for this third year. Hopefully, we'll get at least some of the figures offered to us over the next year and it would be nice if Matty gave people who DID sub-in an early access shot at the figures or something like that.

But what I really wanted to say, that I don't think anyone has mentioned on any of the boards I have been on is . . . what about the Four Horsemen moving this line to DCC or someone else with a DC license? I mean, they would have to sort of "start from scratch" because I would imagine that the bucks they created for the DCUC/DCIE are now the intellectual property of Mattel, but that doesn't mean they couldn't reproduce new and improved bucks that would fit right in with the line as it exists.


I would love to see them get hired by DCC or someone else with the explicit task of "continuing" this line at a retail or direct market level.

Thoughts?


First, welcome aboard newbie. :D Second, I like the idea. Not sure if something like this could/would work, but I'd love to see it happen.

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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:01 am 
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alcinde4 wrote:
hunterjax wrote:
New to the boards here, but a long time lurker/reader, especially every year around sub-time. Felt it was finally time to register and weigh in a bit.

First, I don't want to repeat all of the things you all said, but I have subbed from the beginning and am hugely disappointed that the sub is not continuing for this third year. Hopefully, we'll get at least some of the figures offered to us over the next year and it would be nice if Matty gave people who DID sub-in an early access shot at the figures or something like that.

But what I really wanted to say, that I don't think anyone has mentioned on any of the boards I have been on is . . . what about the Four Horsemen moving this line to DCC or someone else with a DC license? I mean, they would have to sort of "start from scratch" because I would imagine that the bucks they created for the DCUC/DCIE are now the intellectual property of Mattel, but that doesn't mean they couldn't reproduce new and improved bucks that would fit right in with the line as it exists.


I would love to see them get hired by DCC or someone else with the explicit task of "continuing" this line at a retail or direct market level.

Thoughts?


First, welcome aboard newbie. :D Second, I like the idea. Not sure if something like this could/would work, but I'd love to see it happen.

Thanks! I haven't been a newbie on a board in a long time . . . lol.

Yeah, I mean I think it's unlikely, but they have to already be looking at more work to fill in the void that this is going to leave in their work schedule.

The figures that they are doing for Adam Power, although in a smaller scale, look like the DCUC bucks almost exactly . . . it's probably wishful thinking, but I don't think it's a complete fantasy :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:19 am 
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stewbacca wrote:
I bought Uncle Sam -- not because of his comic apperances- but because hes Uncle' freaking' Sam-- and their are no good figures of him-- I think Mattel missed the boat on him- by not pushing him on the WWII /American Legion related sites--He is one of the coolest figures that they have designed and released (and will match up good with the 4 Horseman Eagle figure)



Yes! It's true that he is an obscure character, and he doesn't seem to get much love from DC fans, but he is a great figure! I thought he would generate interest far beyond the DC fan base.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:37 am 
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hunterjax wrote:
New to the boards here, but a long time lurker/reader, especially every year around sub-time. Felt it was finally time to register and weigh in a bit.

First, I don't want to repeat all of the things you all said, but I have subbed from the beginning and am hugely disappointed that the sub is not continuing for this third year. Hopefully, we'll get at least some of the figures offered to us over the next year and it would be nice if Matty gave people who DID sub-in an early access shot at the figures or something like that.

But what I really wanted to say, that I don't think anyone has mentioned on any of the boards I have been on is . . . what about the Four Horsemen moving this line to DCC or someone else with a DC license? I mean, they would have to sort of "start from scratch" because I would imagine that the bucks they created for the DCUC/DCIE are now the intellectual property of Mattel, but that doesn't mean they couldn't reproduce new and improved bucks that would fit right in with the line as it exists.

I would love to see them get hired by DCC or someone else with the explicit task of "continuing" this line at a retail or direct market level.

Thoughts?


Hi! Welcome to the board!

You have a good idea. Unfortunately, the Four Horsemen do not have control over the DC license. Mattel hired the company to work as an independent team of sculptors that could work without the corporate red tape. In the beginning, the Horsemen worked on Harry Potter statues and Masters of the Universe figures, but then the workload was expanded to include figures from the DC universe.

DC Collectibles is a unit of DC Comics. It has its own lines of action figures and statues from DC Comics. It used to have a more competitive relationship with other toymakers, but that has evolved to become more amicable and promotional.


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 Post subject: Re: DC Universe Club Infinite Earths...does it survive for 2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:34 pm 
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DC Collectibles could produce a 6 inch "generic" line that fits into DCUC. They could also produce JLU scale animated figures. But they don't, probably because they did not want to compete with Mattel's lines.

But that time is over, since Mattel decided to do their "let's randomly mess with scale for no reason" thing.

DC Collectibles should do the following:

1.) Hire a former Mattel or Hasbro exec to set up large-scale production and distribution of their toys

2.) Wait until their contract with Mattel is over

3.) Drop Mattel like fifth period French and take control of how their intellectual property is designed, marketed and sold


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