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 Post subject: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:17 pm 
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I was looking over a few reviews of some MOTUC figures I wanted to get on the second hand market..namely Ebay. I am amazed at how much more Mattel invested in MOTUC this past year than DCIE and it became apparent why DCIE failed. It seems Mattel gave extra attention to MOTUC which helped retain fans vs DCIE. Take characters like Batros, Sky High with friggin rocket sled, and Mantenna. All of these characters required extreme extra tooling while DC figures got the shaft. We had to settle for new paint apps and a few new features here and there, but not much. I look at Huntress and she has a few new belts and new legs but the majority of the figures are on the same stock body. I am pretty disgusted with Mattel right now after realizing how much they put into MOTUC versus DCIE......we didn't get any extras, no vehicles or playsets....MOTUC got massive new tooling, a vehicle and a playset.

Scott invested into his favorite and sucked the life right out of DCIE.

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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Mattel can put more behind MOTUC because it's their own property. They didn't have to pay some other company for licensing rights. No shared profit allows them to reinvest more money back into the line.


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:04 pm 
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You just noticed this?


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:34 pm 
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MOTUC is pretty much all they have now for the online collector market since they are giving up on DC. Next year is going to be a sad sight on Mattycollector.com with the lack of anything new for sale besides more MOTUC figures. They should just rename it MOTUCcollector.com. :)


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:20 am 
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whakojacko1976 wrote:
Mattel can put more behind MOTUC because it's their own property. They didn't have to pay some other company for licensing rights. No shared profit allows them to reinvest more money back into the line.


Not true, DC historically has sold better than MOTUC, they had a retail line and a sub and I believe the DC sub originally sold better than the MOTUC sub. They had the money to reinvest in the line for more features and accessories. They complain about tooling cost yet they went above and beyond for MAntenna, he had multiple removable parts and special multi-legs with added articulation.

The point is that they invested in the 2013 MOTUC line while dismissing the DCIE line. No wonder the DCIE went bust. I buy everything from the DCIE line, but I understand others need more of an incentive to buy, Mattel didn't reach out to them at all.

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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:24 am 
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j1h15233 wrote:
You just noticed this?


Uh, yeah...I think I made that clear with the post????


Shabbyblue:

Next year is going to be pathetic because Scott only focused his energies into MOTUC. Think about it, all his corny videos were mainly about selling MOTUC, hardly any promotion for anything else.

DC fans have it bad on both fronts. First off their cartoons are constantly being sunk by Cartoon Network. I can't believe they continue to exist as a network with the way they sink popular toons. Then you have Scott who put more energy into MOTUC than DC, it wasn't even an equal effort.....Mighty Spector anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:29 am 
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I was definitely being sarcastic and at NO POINT in the history of that website has DC outsold MOTUC.


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:32 am 
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Superpowers1980 wrote:
whakojacko1976 wrote:
Mattel can put more behind MOTUC because it's their own property. They didn't have to pay some other company for licensing rights. No shared profit allows them to reinvest more money back into the line.


Not true, DC historically has sold better than MOTUC, they had a retail line and a sub and I believe the DC sub originally sold better than the MOTUC sub. They had the money to reinvest in the line for more features and accessories. They complain about tooling cost yet they went above and beyond for MAntenna, he had multiple removable parts and special multi-legs with added articulation.

The point is that they invested in the 2013 MOTUC line while dismissing the DCIE line. No wonder the DCIE went bust. I buy everything from the DCIE line, but I understand others need more of an incentive to buy, Mattel didn't reach out to them at all.


Respectfully, no.

Nothing DC on Matty sold better than MOTUC with a very few possible exceptions. The subs certainly didn't. The 2-packs certainly didn't.

I'm as annoyed as anybody DCIE died (see my sig), but MOTUC was always the darling of Mattycollector. And because they own the brand, I'm sure they got more money per figure, therefore allowing the bean counters to shake loose a little of that Barbie/Hot Wheels money to allow unique tooling. We didn't hit tier two last year which would have allowed more MOTUC type parts.

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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:47 am 
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Yes, MOTU is a Mattel owned property but it is also one single storyline with a couple of small off-shoots. DC on the other hand is probably several hundred storylines that are slightly interconnected. A Batman fan doesn't necessarily want the Freedom Fighters and a Teen Titans fan doesn't necessarily want any of Legion of Super Heroes, a Flash fan doesn't necessarily want the Rainbow Corps. That's where the largest part of the problem lies, there just aren't enough people who want everything even if you limit it to nothing lower than "B-listers" (which we've seen in other threads that there are wildly different opinions on who ranks as a "B-lister"). You might have 10-15,000 people who will buy anything Batman, but are there that many who want Weather Wizard? Even if there is that's not taking into account *which* version of Weather Wizard - make the modern you might cut that number in half, make the classic you might lose a third. It's why the whole thing seems doomed anymore without retail behind it. The high-tool figures have to balance out with some low-tool figures and the number has to be consistent each month to keep that balance and the subs are what guarantees that number is going to sell. Then you have to try to get some sort of balance for 12 months of "high demand" figures with "team builders" against "fan favorites", much easier when you're doing five-to-seven retail waves of seven-to-nine figures than trying to narrow that down to twelve slots.

I just can't see retail going back to the line at the price point it is now. It would be DC/Batman Unlimited all over again as they're going to want the big guns, they're going to want guaranteed sell-through now, not peg warmers like OMAC, Indigo Atom or Toyman so that would end our variety unless you really, really, really like Bat-variants. Marvel Legends is struggling at retail because it's having much the same problem, high price and not enough "good" (for lack of a better, simpler term) characters. Star Wars Black seems to be doing well, but part of that is pent-up demand, part is a huge group of Star Wars collectors who will buy anything and everything and part is that it's just something new. Will demand for the line hold up as prices continue to increase? Will demand continue as the current batch of figures starts getting recycled into other characters?

As for MOTUC getting more tooling dollars, yeah, they get some, but parts re-use is the name of the game with that line, figures like Mantenna are the exception. This year got three (nearly) 100% new figures: Ram Man, Mantenna and the Horde Trooper. The Horde Trooper is probably getting triple to quadruple use in one run just because there are two identical figures in one pack and the things are troop builders plus there's another run of the body mold if they decide to make General Sundar down the road (just a new head and maybe a new weapon). I can see part of Ram Man being used for Sagitaur and parts of Mantenna could see future re-use as well, it's not all about one single figure/usage where tooling costs are concerned with MOTUC. Re-use is part of the plan. Even the Sky Sled was designed for possible re-use, the dragon head could be replaced with a snake head and re-sold as a ride for Skeletor's faction if the demand is there.

MOTUC probably only has two more years left in it anyway (which will still be a far shorter run than the various 4H DC lines have combined). If the sub gets picked up for 2015 that will probably be the end as the vintage character choices will be nearly gone and the prices will be too high for most collectors to think about continuing on without that vintage hook that got this year through.


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:12 am 
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Superpowers1980 wrote:
I was looking over a few reviews of some MOTUC figures I wanted to get on the second hand market..namely Ebay. I am amazed at how much more Mattel invested in MOTUC this past year than DCIE and it became apparent why DCIE failed. It seems Mattel gave extra attention to MOTUC which helped retain fans vs DCIE. Take characters like Batros, Sky High with friggin rocket sled, and Mantenna. All of these characters required extreme extra tooling while DC figures got the shaft. We had to settle for new paint apps and a few new features here and there, but not much. I look at Huntress and she has a few new belts and new legs but the majority of the figures are on the same stock body. I am pretty disgusted with Mattel right now after realizing how much they put into MOTUC versus DCIE......we didn't get any extras, no vehicles or playsets....MOTUC got massive new tooling, a vehicle and a playset.

Scott invested into his favorite and sucked the life right out of DCIE.



You're preaching to the choir.

But Mattel did offer extras for the DC Infinite Earths subscription. Each year, Mattel had two tiers for the subscription, but not enough collectors signed up to reach the second tier, which would have offered more tooling and accessories.

The MOTU Club Eternia subscription was a much bigger success. The subscription reached its goal easily, and even spawned two additional subscriptions, the 30th Anniversary Series and Club Filmation.

In the end, MOTU fans were willing to pay for extras, and DC fans were not.


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Superpowers1980 wrote:
whakojacko1976 wrote:
Mattel can put more behind MOTUC because it's their own property. They didn't have to pay some other company for licensing rights. No shared profit allows them to reinvest more money back into the line.


Not true, DC historically has sold better than MOTUC, they had a retail line and a sub and I believe the DC sub originally sold better than the MOTUC sub. They had the money to reinvest in the line for more features and accessories. They complain about tooling cost yet they went above and beyond for MAntenna, he had multiple removable parts and special multi-legs with added articulation.

The point is that they invested in the 2013 MOTUC line while dismissing the DCIE line. No wonder the DCIE went bust. I buy everything from the DCIE line, but I understand others need more of an incentive to buy, Mattel didn't reach out to them at all.

Where did you get any of this information?

Yes, DC had a retail line. All retail lines sell better than online properties.

But when you look at what sold better - MOTUC or DCIE - it's painfully obvious that MOTUC is the clear winner. DCIE barely got off the ground in its first year, whereas MOTUC was seeing instantaneous sell-outs of its monthly figures from the beginning. The sub model was created to keep up with demand.

DC product never sold particularly well on Matty. They tried different executions - two-packs, singles, the twelve-pack - and none lived up to expectations or, if they did, they were a logistical nightmare (Legion, I'm looking at you).

Mattel was upfront with collectors that, if tier two was reached, there would be more tooling accessible, and we didn't even come close. They've also said that MOTUC sells beyond DC's tier two. You don't know whether or not they had the money to reinvest in the line - in fact, you can actually say that they likely didn't, or they would have.


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Lol. Nothing more to add. I've just never seen a thread shot down more thoroughly than this one. Carry on...

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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Hey guys this is Superpowers1980 - can any of the mods help out, my original account was locked because I kept using the wrong password and I can no longer get back into it.


First off, I never said DC outsold Mattel though Mattycollector, though I believe they did sell more subs the first year it was offered. I was talking about the retail line and pointed that out directly but some glossed over that. The point I was making is that DC has a larger target base to attract than MOTUC.

Even if MOTUC sold more subs the point is (which again everyone glossed over) that their fans still had more incentive, the only incentive DC fans were given was an extra Doomsday that should be the standard and not the exception. Scott made more videos targeting the MOTUC audience, encouraging them, responding to fan demands. etc.

If you deal with character selection, again Scott listened to MOTU collectors and NOT DC collectors. MOTU had all their fan demanded characters made, efforts put behind them while DC went silent. Every popular polled characted from various sites went unheard of as far as action figure creation.

MoMoney - again I stated DC at retail versus MOTUC, if you take into account that yes DC sold less online this past year and the year before but forgot to consider they also had a retail line at the same exact time! Never has DCIE been active and Mattel not have a DC brand on the shelves...combined the sales of MOTUC are meager, the DC brand was mismanaged. Penguin is a prime example of a character that was supposed to show up on DCIE but went to retail which angered many fans. Yes I love Batman but seriously how much can you go to the hole with that one with all the glut of Batman products.

It's plain and simple that Scott and crew were firmly behind MOTUC more than DCIE, or at least to make it last longer. So far the only major demanded characters made this year were CM jr and Huntress. Yet, look at how many wished out characters for MOTUC were made.


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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: DCIE vs MOTUC - who did Mattel invest in
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Okay, I'll be a moron and bite.

Superpowers1981 wrote:
First off, I never said DC outsold Mattel though Mattycollector, though I believe they did sell more subs the first year it was offered. I was talking about the retail line and pointed that out directly but some glossed over that. The point I was making is that DC has a larger target base to attract than MOTUC.

You've just contradicted yourself. Breath 1: "I never said DC outsold Mattel though (sic) Mattycollector." Breath 2: "I believe they did sell more subs the first year it was offered." Clear as mud!

And for the record, yes, you did. If I may point you toward this sentence in your second post...

I believe the DC sub originally sold better than the MOTUC sub.

Those are your exact words.

Superpowers1981 wrote:
Even if MOTUC sold more subs the point is (which again everyone glossed over) that their fans still had more incentive, the only incentive DC fans were given was an extra Doomsday that should be the standard and not the exception. Scott made more videos targeting the MOTUC audience, encouraging them, responding to fan demands. etc.

The MOTUC sub didn't start out at the point that it is now. The line started in 2008; it didn't expand into a line with extras like Battle Cat until 2010. And why did it do that? Because it sold like hotcakes without any pimping. Its numbers proved to management that they could throw a few more resources MOTUC's way. It grew organically. It grew because the support was there from the beginning.

Had the DC offerings been met with similar support, things would be very different.

Superpowers1981 wrote:
If you deal with character selection, again Scott listened to MOTU collectors and NOT DC collectors. MOTU had all their fan demanded characters made, efforts put behind them while DC went silent. Every popular polled characted from various sites went unheard of as far as action figure creation.

Yeah, no one asked for Jay Garrick, Huntress, Poison Ivy, Ra's al Ghul, Fire, Ice, Aquaman, Platinum, Tin, Lead, Elongated Man, Wally West...they totally missed the mark. Idiots.

Superpowers1981 wrote:
MoMoney - again I stated DC at retail versus MOTUC, if you take into account that yes DC sold less online this past year and the year before but forgot to consider they also had a retail line at the same exact time! Never has DCIE been active and Mattel not have a DC brand on the shelves...combined the sales of MOTUC are meager, the DC brand was mismanaged. Penguin is a prime example of a character that was supposed to show up on DCIE but went to retail which angered many fans. Yes I love Batman but seriously how much can you go to the hole with that one with all the glut of Batman products.

The people that were buying DCIE largely ignored the retail product because nobody wanted it. I don't think anyone buys that as an excuse.

Penguin was never supposed to be in DCIE, and no one was angry that he wasn't included there. He is the exact kind of character that belongs at retail - an iconic Batman character.

Superpowers1981 wrote:
It's plain and simple that Scott and crew were firmly behind MOTUC more than DCIE, or at least to make it last longer. So far the only major demanded characters made this year were CM jr and Huntress. Yet, look at how many wished out characters for MOTUC were made.

If you're dating two girls at the same time, and one of them stops returning your texts, you're probably better off spending your time with the one who's still responding.

Unless you like restraining orders.


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