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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:37 pm 
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To Clayface:

Yes Mattel has killed the line with their poor business behaviors, I have already complained about that but as I pointed out another problem is the Chinese sellers. I have never seen Toyguru address this issue once, if you have proof then please share I would love to see it because the problem seems rampant to me. No matter how you slice it, the Chinese sellers have made a dent, small or large into Mattel's profit and toy making ability, especially with the DCUC line. Already they are selling Aquaman, Ghul and Ice...you honestly don't think they will impact day of sales??

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Last edited by Superpowers1980 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:38 pm 
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They're loose, stolen, unauthorized samples. It's the truth, however inconvenient. End of debate.


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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Superpowers1980 wrote:
To Clayface:

Yes Mattel has killed the line with their poor business behaviors, I have already complained about that but as I pointed out another problem is the Chinese sellers. I have never seen Toyguru address this issue once, if you have proof then please share I would love to see it because the problem seems rampant to me. No matter how you slice it, the Chinese sellers have made a dent, small or large into Mattel's profit and toy making ability.


Toyguru has addressed it before, and they're unauthorized stolen samples taken out the back door at factories. I'm not sure what "documentation" is required for others who doubt it to believe this, but it's the truth.

Also, Mattel did not commission the horsemen, pay them money, and fabricate the Doomsday prototype JUST to tease and taunt fans of the line with something they could never attain. Thinking otherwise is just plain ignorant and petty. I wanted him as badly as anyone, and hopefully, just as happened many times in the past,Mattel may revisit their stance on him one day


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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Captain Collector wrote:
They're loose, stolen, unauthorized samples. It's the truth, however inconvenient. End of debate.


You can say it all you want, but some people refuse to believe it.


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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Captain Collector wrote:
They're loose, stolen, unauthorized samples. It's the truth, however inconvenient. End of debate.


You believe what you want without any substantial proof, man. I'm not that gullible. There are a lot of companies/factories in this world that throw away samples/defects. I've seen a bike company in the states throw away frames that have minor flaws in the chrome. If someone pulls those out the dumpster & resells them is it stealing? I think not! It is discarded goods! We have no proof that this is not the case with these figures. Only toyguru's word, which is sketchy at best, that they are stolen! For one thing he is not at the factory in China to oversee what is taking place. Also a word of truth barely escapes his keyboard/mouth to begin with. There is no real proof of these allegations. There were 1000's of STAS Aquaman's for sale on ebay by multiple sellers over the past few months. I find it really hard to believe that many figures were " stolen " out the factory at one time.

Captain Collector wrote:
Toyguru has addressed it before, and they're unauthorized stolen samples taken out the back door at factories. I'm not sure what "documentation" is required for others who doubt it to believe this, but it's the truth.


I need a little more than toyguru just saying it. Since he has lied to the consumers often, he has zero credibility left IMO. I'm not foolish enough to believe what I read because it's all that they give us!


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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Captain Collector wrote:
Superpowers1980 wrote:
To Clayface:

Yes Mattel has killed the line with their poor business behaviors, I have already complained about that but as I pointed out another problem is the Chinese sellers. I have never seen Toyguru address this issue once, if you have proof then please share I would love to see it because the problem seems rampant to me. No matter how you slice it, the Chinese sellers have made a dent, small or large into Mattel's profit and toy making ability.


Toyguru has addressed it before, and they're unauthorized stolen samples taken out the back door at factories. I'm not sure what "documentation" is required for others who doubt it to believe this, but it's the truth.

Also, Mattel did not commission the horsemen, pay them money, and fabricate the Doomsday prototype JUST to tease and taunt fans of the line with something they could never attain. Thinking otherwise is just plain ignorant and petty. I wanted him as badly as anyone, and hopefully, just as happened many times in the past,Mattel may revisit their stance on him one day


Umm, you are confusing my statement with someone else's argument. All I asked for was proof that Toyguru has addressed the issue, you saying it just isn't enough. As for the figures I never said they weren't samples, etc, if anything I am the only one saying they are a problem and helped caused the downfall of a line I love. Personally I don't believe they are samples, I think somehow they are running more figures into production and claiming defect to sell later. Either way it amazes me that "IF" Toyguru addressed it that it continues in such a big fashion...why hasn't Mattel done enough to stop this snoogling of their product?

The Doomsday comment is not meant for me as I never addressed it here....Clayface I believe he may be talking to you.

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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:01 pm 
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It was in one of our Q & A's, I don't really have the time to research it, but it's in there.
Spending time in the industry in toy production, I can assure you they're "after hours" specials, not authorized for sale by the company.


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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:03 pm 
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All the stolen leaked China sample talk aside, I actually don't think this issue was a huge contributor to the line's downfall. The spotty quality control, character selection, high prices, and all aforementioned issues really contributedt o it's sad downfall. One of my favorite lines of all time. :(


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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:11 pm 
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It doesn't matter if they're stolen, it's sad that this line has to end. I want more figures of my favorite characters.


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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Clayface wrote:
If someone pulls those out the dumpster & resells them is it stealing? I think not! !



Well your wrong-- you can probably get away with it if its placed on a curb or something similiar-- but if its in a gated/fenced facility or on private property - which in both cases most factories normally are, it is trespassing and stealing..

Factories also sometimes reclaim these "discards" and either regrind them and work them in to batches of lower quality plastic or other similiar procedures.. Although to be fair- taking ones and twos of "factory second" product is usually ignored-- it is still stealing.. From large scale bakeries to building material manufacturers- its the same as when stockers at grocery stores-- purposely drop food and other things-- and must throw it away because its "damaged"-- I used to know someone who did this with alcohol- and he had friends waiting inside the dumpster-- (he and his accomplices were arrested for shoplifting- when the store manager called the cops after he found out)

I wouldnt recommend giving any law advice.

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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:55 am 
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Well, the fact is that how we think of manufacturing (at least in the western hemisphere) doesn't apply to China. So yeah, in a capital society, where there is such a thing as "private ownership" logic dictates that we think these things were stolen. But again, China is different. They are a communist country were the state controls and owns everything... the manufacturing plants, the process, the raw materials and the labor. The plants themselves are run through political appointees that have a business background, and the whole thing looks and sounds like a private business. But those managers still answer to the State. Not Mattel. Mattel is just a client. They are quoted a price... they place an order... they give out manufacturing specifications... and they are delivered a specific number of units. The rest... things like overuns or defective items, are for the Plant to do as they please. It's the garbage and Mattel is not going to take ownership of it; or dispose of it. It is the Plant's property to throw away or sell on Ebay. Here's the funny thing, though. These plants sometimes share production runs/times with other companies like Hasbro & DC Collectibles. So in the end, I'm pretty sure that these samples are being sold by the manufacturing plants themselves and their managers. 'Cause that brings them money, and technically speaking, they answer to the Communist Party, not Mattel or Hasbro.

Here's the thing... I could go into further detail, but at the end of the day people are going to believe whatever they want to believe. But a smart person should understand the fundamental difference (in terms of ownership) between a capital society and a communist one. Plus, logic dictates that a factory (as a whole) is in a better position to sell their excess production, manage 500 ebay auctions (with free shipping), and speak a foreign language; than a handful of factory workers who are "stealing product" when no one is looking. The latter is just not going to happen in a society where the State controls the food, the housing, the education, the entertainment, the communications (i.e. internet) and the wages of the labor class. A labor class that by all standards, can be considered poor and not well educated.

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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:34 am 
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Thank you, Red Ricky!
We just don't know!
We can try to apply our laws, our ways of business and our ways of thinking but that may not be the case.
We don't know how it functions over there. And of course Mattel is going to call it theft because these early releases hurt them or damage their sales in some form. So of course they won't promote it and they certainly won't ignore it. But seriously between Mattel, Hasbro, Character Options, Neca and all the other companies who I see advance pieces from Chinese sellers, you would think one company would get to the bottom of it by now?

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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:39 am 
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Captain Collector wrote:
It was in one of our Q & A's, I don't really have the time to research it, but it's in there.
Spending time in the industry in toy production, I can assure you they're "after hours" specials, not authorized for sale by the company.

But this I can agree with. And is a story I have heard way too many times from different people in my toy show travels. Secret after hours running of the machines, hand painted figures (which explains why some painted figures rock over retail) and other various shady stories. But it all goes back to, we just don't know and I agree it probably had very little to do with the line's death.

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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:00 am 
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I think Mattel knows what's going on, but to a certain extent, they chalk it up to the cost of doing business. Every business has leakage. But ultimately, it's probably hurting the retail outlets more than Mattel. Remember, Mattel places "factory" orders based on advance orders received by them from Target, Walmart & Toy R Us. In the case of Mattycollector, they use the subscriptions as their basis. So you know... they'll order 1,000 Beast Men, they'll sell their units, and if the factory makes & sells 200 "extras", well... they probably figure it's okay to ignore the problem because "fixing it" would cost money and their money is already in the bank.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-1 ... abuse.html

Funny thing is that the easiest way to fight ebay leakage from China, is to offer quality accessories. It's a simple thing, and most collectors will wait for the retail version if it means getting a cool Starro spore or a Black Mercy. But you know Mattel, they rather die than take a hit on something as simple as a scythe. (JK!)

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Bonus:...Starfire, Steppenwolf w/Desaad, the Joker's Jokerz


Last edited by red Ricky on Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: No sub needed !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:30 am 
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Van Statten wrote:
Captain Collector wrote:
It was in one of our Q & A's, I don't really have the time to research it, but it's in there.
Spending time in the industry in toy production, I can assure you they're "after hours" specials, not authorized for sale by the company.

But this I can agree with. And is a story I have heard way too many times from different people in my toy show travels. Secret after hours running of the machines, hand painted figures (which explains why some painted figures rock over retail) and other various shady stories. But it all goes back to, we just don't know and I agree it probably had very little to do with the line's death.


Funny you mention this - if you've ever seen the majority of these "samples", they're usually superior paint & quality than actual production pieces. Seriously, they usually very clean & nothing broken.


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