Home Forum Columns Galleries Archives About

It is currently Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:31 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 111 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:16 am 
User avatar
Loose, Missing Package
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 10533
Location: Cox's Creek, KY
Gee, seems like I've missed all the "fun".

KM, if you're still lurking around I might suggest you track down and read this book...

Toy Wars: The Epic Struggle Between G.I. Joe, Barbie, and the Companies That Make Them

Sure the book is about 10 years old now, is primarily from the Hasbro point-of-view and the author is writing about the year before Hasbro got the license to Star Wars, but perhaps it will give you a better insight into how different Mattel and Hasbro actually are.

Tomart's Action Figure Digest also ran a fantastic two-part article on the Super Powers line from the initial pitches from Mattel and Kenner through the line and all of the unproduced concepts. If you can track these down the first part will explain a lot about Mattel's past inability to have a truly successful action figure line (the original MOTU was a fluke, it's popularity drew from the strength of the cartoon, much like GI Joe and Transformers did in the 80s). Ah, Tomart still has both issues in stock...

http://www.secure.figures.com/tomart/ca ... ucts_id=96

http://www.secure.figures.com/tomart/ca ... ucts_id=95

Back to your argument that Mattel has had successful action figures lines, I'll give you three pre-DC lines that were major successes and that's it:

1: the original 1980's Masters of the Universe
2. Big Jim
3. Max Steel

No others. Major Matt Mason: cancelled before the second series. Secret Wars, 16 figures total, 3 of those only available outside of the US -- horrible sculpts and simplistic decoration. Late 80's He-Man, nope. Harry Potter, did okay the first year, slipped the second, bombed the third with the scale changes. Captain Power, nope. Bravestarr, nope. Pulsar, nope. The Simpsons, they managed to completely bungle something like this at the high point of it's popularity? American Gladiators, nope. Naruto, I might give you that one as I really haven't been paying a lot of attention to the line.

Mattel's strengths are marketing fashion dolls and die cast cars and they've never really been able to crack or understand the action figure market. Hasbro's had the opposite problem with bungled fashion dolls and die cast line, but for the most part they know what will sell and how to market when it comes to action figures. Mattel's marketing staff are still trying to apply the Barbie and Hot Wheels templates to action figures but that looks to be changing with the Build a Figure concept being added to the 6" comic line so I believe that they might finally be starting to "get it", there might still be some rough patches in the road but I think things are really going to start looking up for all of the DC lines with the new year.

As for your comments about Mattel having my poster in their offices in another thread, no, that poster would be at Hasbro. For all the respect that I have for Toy Guru (and Boy Wonder, Texas Ranger and Inside Traitor before him) 80-85% of my toy collection comes from Hasbro/Kenner and that will probably continue. In general, I've usually had an extreme dislike for the way that Mattel markets their product to collectors, from the multitudes of exclusive Barbie and Hot Wheels product to way that the Hot Wheels line caters to scalpers. The reason I want Mattel to succeed this time and the reason I want constructive criticism about what their doing instead of aimless tirades is so that DC collectors will finally have a good, comprehensive line of action figures (several lines, in fact) instead of a line that starts and quickly stalls to an end like every attempt Hasbro made to go beyond the Timm-style animated Batman.


Last edited by Jim_Abell on Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:16 am 
User avatar
The Last Word
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 3565
Location: Stately Wayne Manor
KingRandor82 wrote:
Here's another example: At the SDCC, fans are always asking Hasbro about what WILL be. Mattel collectors only ask WHY THEY DIDN'T DO THIS OR THAT.

It's mostly JLU collectors, too, and I honestly believe it's just that Mattel has spoiled them. If you take the JLU, JL, and TNBA lines combined, you get at least 70 unique characters (I may have forgotten someone) that are currently or have been available at retail. Mattel gets no credit for that; they only get grief for not pumping out an additional 70 new characters right now.

KingRandor82 wrote:
I hate to say it- but I almost feel sorry for Mattel- especially since such a freakin 'double standard is applied to them- and they are still utterly dumbfounded.

I agree. Someone said about other message boards, "they seem to be full of dicks." Well, if I worked for Mattel, that's what I would think when I read this forum, and that's not cool, especially considering how far they've gone to be good to us.

killer mothzilla wrote:
For most of my adult life, I've been an action figure expert. Not because I say so, but because that's what the TV, radio, and print interviewers called me. I joined the forum here because it seemed much more smart and reasonable than the other geek forums. I hate to say this, but judging by some of the more recent posts in various threads (by various people), I'm obviously playing in the little leagues here.

:lol:

That's seriously one of the funniest things I've ever read.

Jim_Abell wrote:
Secret Wars, 9 figures total, 3 of those only available outside of the US -- horrible sculpts and simplistic decoration.

Wolverine, Iron Man, Daredevil, Spiderman (only counting one version), Captain America, Falcon, Dr. Doom, Magneto, Dr. Octopus, Hobgoblin, and Kang. I got eleven off the top of my head, and that's not including the ones who were only available elsewhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:06 am 
My heart is of low-durometer PVC
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 457
killer mothzilla wrote:
For most of my adult life, I've been an action figure expert. Not because I say so, but because that's what the TV, radio, and print interviewers called me.


Wow! If that's true, you should already know the answers to your questions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:03 am 
5th Horseman
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 796
This is pretty ridiculous. 'Little Leagues' ....What's that supposed to mean?

Anyway, thanks to SDComics for those links to what others think about us. I LOVED reading that!!! I wasn't bashed b/c I don't collect JLU nor did I complain at all after SDCC, but I'm glad somebody said it!

I enjoy these boards and the members so I don't want to offend anyone and I'm not an angry guy in general but I did want to smack some people for bitchin over JLU's showing at SDCC. It's like walking into a hospital's Intensive Care Unit and complaining about a cold..... JLU has given the fans SO much, and for us excited 6 inch collectors, it's taken everything we've had just to get a Flash figure.... and we're still waiting, but that's cool. Glad someone put a good perspective about how skewed things can get here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:16 am 
Bob Vila
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 2451
Location: Bethlehem, PA
SDcomics wrote:
>>So, could someone explain-- what does Hasbro do right that Mattel does wrong?<<

Okay, this has been explained about ten gazillion times around here, but hey, what the heck. Let's do this again.

2007 was a tough year for retail shelf space. There were four, count'em four, major movies that were released this year that had a toy line. Spider-Man 3, Pirates of the Carribean, Transformers and Fantastic Four 2. Wal-mart, Target, TRU and the other retailers only have a limited amount of shelf space that they can devote to each line. And I can tell you right now, they're going to devote the most space to the lines that have a movie that they can tie the toys into. The movie promotes the toys. The toys promote the movies (And the inevitable DVDs.) See how that works? It's just good business.

All four of those action figure lines will hang around through Christmas. When the stores do their January and Spring resets, you'll see some major changes. The Dark Knight movie toys will be huge next year. So will the 6" DC Classics line. Mattel and DC will get a lot more lovin'.

Go to your local Target or Wal-Mart today and take a look around at the action figure aisle. Look at how much space Spider-Man 3, Pirates and the Transformers are taking. And then think about how much more space the retailers are going to have when that stuff is gone.

Mike
(Thank goodness that the January resets aren't that far off anymore. Frankly, I'm getting tired of going over this.)


Haven't read through this whole thread yet, so I apologize if this has been covered but... I think this doesn't really disprove Mothzilla's point. He uses Sigma Six as an example, which should conceivably be just as hurt by all the movie stuff as Mattel, but doesn't seem to be. He could have just as easily used wrestling figures, since their space doesn't seem to be crowded out by the movie toys. I understand that each line is different, but Mothzilla's point that other long running toy lines seemed to have weathered the summer storm without the distribution problems that have plagued JLU and DCSH is still valid.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:28 am 
User avatar
Loose, Missing Package
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 10533
Location: Cox's Creek, KY
hellpop wrote:
Haven't read through this whole thread yet, so I apologize if this has been covered but... I think this doesn't really disprove Mothzilla's point. He uses Sigma Six as an example, which should conceivably be just as hurt by all the movie stuff as Mattel, but doesn't seem to be. He could have just as easily used wrestling figures, since their space doesn't seem to be crowded out by the movie toys. I understand that each line is different, but Mothzilla's point that other long running toy lines seemed to have weathered the summer storm without the distribution problems that have plagued JLU and DCSH is still valid.


Well, Sigma 6 and WWE have proven track records as strong sellers while JLU and DCSH don't and have hit quite a few snags in case packouts and such. Plus WWE and other properties like Star Wars, GI Joe, Power Rangers and Ben10 have strong followings that aren't (always) tied to a theatrical/DVD release of a movie. Mattel apparently wanted to lay low (unfortunatley it seems to be costing them their collector base in the process) unti there was a high-profile DC film in theaters *and* they had a wider selection of characters available beyond JLU.

Granted, I'm not sure that what I'm about to say is the problem, it's just some educated speculation on my part-- Nobody *really* knows what's going to sell until it's on the pegs. Manufacturers and retailers can use all sorts of spreadsheets and sales data to decide that Batman and Superman should be packed heavy because they sell better than the others do so this leads to cases that are much heavier than Superman and Batman. Sure the new characters in the mix sell faster but, even thought they sell slower, Batman and Superman will still eventually *outsell* the others 3-to-1 because they're packed heavier and the data gets skewed in their favor because of that. When Mattel's sales guys go to Target's or TRU's they're trying to push then newer product but the retail buyers push pack with their "proof" that Batman and Superman sell better and they want them packed heavier in the cases otherwise they won't buy. It doesn't matter to the bean counters that their pegs are already clogged with those heroes, they want more because those are the ones that "sell" (I also have a feeling that a lot of these buyers don't know any heroes besides DCs big three plus Robin and Marvel's top teir, but that's strictly my opinion). I believe Texas Ranger was the one that said that as a case sells through the retailers want the characters that are hanging around until the pegs are restocked to be recognizable, so Superman and Batman are the best ones to be left behind. I've heard Hasbro say pretty much the same thing about Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. Factor in that Mattel still hasn't quite learned how to re-mix cases the way that Hasbro does for Star Wars. It really seems that Mattel's plan is to do one production run of cases and let those go until the next wave is to hit and not mix up latter part of the run with a different ratio or mix of the product. Hasbro also seems to have a much better working relationship with the manufacturing plants, at least as far as action figures go, where they can change out heads or paint jobs mid-run and they seem to do that pretty flawlessly. They also seem to be able to ship several different case mixes of product to different retailers that have different needs where Mattel seems to offer only one -- sometimes, two -- options. Again, this is a lot of speculation on my part, but it really is a lot more complicted than just telling the factories to make more of something because we aren't Mattel's customers, the retailers are...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:55 am 
User avatar
Loose, Missing Package
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 10533
Location: Cox's Creek, KY
Caped Crusader wrote:
Jim_Abell wrote:
Secret Wars, 9 figures total, 3 of those only available outside of the US -- horrible sculpts and simplistic decoration.


Wolverine, Iron Man, Daredevil, Spiderman (only counting one version), Captain America, Falcon, Dr. Doom, Magneto, Dr. Octopus, Hobgoblin, and Kang. I got eleven off the top of my head, and that's not including the ones who were only available elsewhere.


You're right. I started going over the list I'd made in my head after I shut down the computer this morning and I got more of them myself. I just checked and found that there were 16 figures released (post above edited to reflect correction)...

Series I
Captain America
Doctor Doom
Doctor Octopus
Iron Man
Kang the Conqueror
Magneto
Spider-Man
Wolverine

Series II
Spider-Man (black costume)
Baron Zemo
Daredevil
Falcon
Hobgoblin

Foreign/Special Releases
Constrictor
Electro
Iceman

...I think thing that surprised me most is that the villains outnumber the heroes 8 to 7 when you consider that two of the hero slots are filled by Spider-Man. I think this is also the first time multiple versions of a licensed hero were included in the same line. Still the line pales in comparison to Kenner's Super Powers and I think it helped kill the marketability of the Marvel characters until Toy Biz picked up the license after losing the DC one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:59 am 
Still ahead of Mudd
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 6206
Location: Shelbyville, KY
Whats funny is there is the same discussion going on the Rebelscum forums-- about how horrible Hasbro's distribution is, how bad the case packs are and how bad alot of their decisions are? But thats from the perspective of people that dont care about Mattel whatsoever-- which Im sure some of the people on here couldnt care less about Hasbro either. I personally think everyone just like to complain about stuff that no one in reality really gives a crap about-- to 99.5 % of the world a toy is a toy is a toy-- how many little kids would be taken into a TRU and they cant find anything they want--- it may not be what the really were looking for but they always seem to find something. And Im sure thats what the major toy companies really think about the whole situation.

_________________
Fastest know derailer of threads in the know universe...expanded or otherwise.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:13 pm 
User avatar
Loose, Missing Package
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 10533
Location: Cox's Creek, KY
stewbacca wrote:
Whats funny is there is the same discussion going on the Rebelscum forums-- about how horrible Hasbro's distribution is, how bad the case packs are and how bad alot of their decisions are? But thats from the perspective of people that dont care about Mattel whatsoever-- which Im sure some of the people on here couldnt care less about Hasbro either. I personally think everyone just like to complain about stuff that no one in reality really gives a crap about-- to 99.5 % of the world a toy is a toy is a toy-- how many little kids would be taken into a TRU and they cant find anything they want--- it may not be what the really were looking for but they always seem to find something. And Im sure thats what the major toy companies really think about the whole situation.


You've got a good point there, stewbacca. The main factor in sales to the bean counters at any company is product sell-through. If the retailers are happy with sell-through and order more of whatever then the sales department is happy and in turn their reports make the stockholders happy.

Another thing that people seldom take into account is that the manufacturers have very little to do with distribution. The big retailers pick up their product in China and ship it to their warehouses once it reaches the states. Distribution screw-ups usually happen within the retailers' systems, sending too many of the same cases to a single region (or single store) and never to another...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:42 pm 
Joint Unfreezer
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 681
Edited because I am retarded.


Last edited by DC Superfan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:41 pm 
User avatar
Displays Backwards
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 1197
Location: Alexandria, VA
DC Superfan wrote:
BCYa wrote:
SDcomics wrote:
>>And your rudeness is unbecoming.<<

You only think I'm being rude because I don't see things your way. If I agreed with ya, it'd be a whole different story.

Mike
(The End)


No, you have been rude this whole thread. If you agreed with me, I still wouldn't want you to be rude.

And from the links to those other message boards, they seem to be full of dicks. Then again, the internet is fully of those kind of people.

I just want to be able to buy the cool JLU figs Mattel is making. That's all. I actually found the Joker 3-pack today!! It's been like six months since I've bought anything JLU. We just want to be able to buy the figs, and Mattel is notorious for sucking at this stuff. Guess it's not having what you want, but wanting what you got, like Sheryl Crow says. :D



So you got 2 user ID's on here,one to post your opinions and one so it seems like you have someone that agrees with you. That's pretty funny that the only person you can get to agree with is your imaginary friend,kinda sad in a way. And if your that desperate for friends then maybe you should change the way you talk to people.


Uh, what? I'm not that guy and he's not me. So I dunno what you're talking about. I just want some JLU figs, not some douchebag spouting his conspiracy theories. :) All this internet badmouthing and dissing is so lame to me. Have fun making fun of people with your keyboard, if that's what makes you happy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:59 pm 
User avatar
Displays Backwards
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 1197
Location: Alexandria, VA
stewbacca wrote:
Whats funny is there is the same discussion going on the Rebelscum forums-- about how horrible Hasbro's distribution is, how bad the case packs are and how bad alot of their decisions are? But thats from the perspective of people that dont care about Mattel whatsoever-- which Im sure some of the people on here couldnt care less about Hasbro either. I personally think everyone just like to complain about stuff that no one in reality really gives a crap about-- to 99.5 % of the world a toy is a toy is a toy-- how many little kids would be taken into a TRU and they cant find anything they want--- it may not be what the really were looking for but they always seem to find something. And Im sure thats what the major toy companies really think about the whole situation.


I think that's because while there are plenty of Star Wars figures at stores, and I see them all the time, the figures people really want, the McQuarrie figures, I've never seen one in a store ever. I don't know why I even look.

But they are always always snatched up by scalpers and are flooding Ebay. Hopefully the prices will come down, but when the figure you want is taken away by some grubby greedy hands, you want the company to put out more of them. Then again, what number is too many McQ figures in a case. 3? 4? Hasbro just needs to make more of them, and the Animated Fett, because that's what everybody wants, and unfortunately, the scalpers know this.

I guess Mattel does the same thing, in a way, but these JLU figs aren't flooding Ebay like other scalpable toys do (SW, Cars, some wrestling figs), and thus we worry they may never come back. Then again, some Cars stuff were going for crazy prices (I even bought a couple and have regretted it since, and always see the cars I overoverpaid for on shelves), because people didn't know if they were coming back. They did, and now the Cars frenzy is less crazy (though people still overpay for the new stuff, which is pretty damn hard to find unless you're right time, right place.

I wish there was an easy way for us to fix this distribution problem, so we can buy the figs/cars/toys we want and the companies and make the ones we want to buy, and everyone can be happy. Hasbro definitely does it a lot better than Mattel, but even they could change some stuff (more McQ figures!!! I want them all!!!). I think HasbroToyShop.com is a great idea, they just need to make more of the figures we want. Hell, even the mighty Hasbro didn't see that the Transformers movie toys would do so well (while Spidey toys from the dissapointing third movie collect dust, as do the Pirates. At least they barely made any FF toys, I don't see them really selling at all) and thus have shortages of TF Movie toys kids/collectors/fans want to buy.

I know toy sellers need to market to kids AND collectors, but we really need to work together somehow and fix this thing. Mattel has been dumb for years, maybe someday they will learn. They make some really cool toys (I love JLU and the Cars) but business wise they should smarten up (and stop using lead paint!! :) ).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 am 
User avatar
categorically opposed
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 2721
Location: Pittsburgh
And if your that desperate for friends then maybe you should change the way you talk to people.
DC Superfan wrote:
Your comment would have to be talking about one of the two sentences above,as those are the only places that I used your. As you can see you're the contraction for you are doesn't fit in either spot. So before you try and give me a grammar lesson you should try and go back to school. This is a nice and peacefull board ,all you ever do is cause stactic and if that's all you are here to do then you should leave.

You missed one. :P

Sorry, the "your/you're" thing is a pet peeve of mine, too.

:wink:

_________________
Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:19 am 
Joint Unfreezer
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 681
Oh yeah your right. Well that's besides the point ,I was just typing fast and didn't notice. The point is that this crap is getting old regardless of spelling mistakes. Mattel hasn't had a chance to prove that they are working on it and they won't until the summer movie toys are off the shelves. That's what SDComics is trying to say. When all of those figures are gone and on clearance it will free up some peg space. Mattel doesn't believe there lines can compete with big media tie in lines so they are waiting to unleash the beast. They want to have a whole DC section in every store, that is one of there goals. Killer Mothzilla my advice to you is wait it out and I know that sucks,and believe me I am sick of it too but be paitent alot of things will change with new lisence.

TO bcya -it seemed like you were KM as you responded like SDcomics was talking to when he was quoting and replying to KM. So I apologize.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:39 am 
User avatar
The Last Word
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 3565
Location: Stately Wayne Manor
Jim_Abell wrote:
Still the line pales in comparison to Kenner's Super Powers and I think it helped kill the marketability of the Marvel characters until Toy Biz picked up the license after losing the DC one.

You know, the line certainly doesn't stand the test of time very well, but when I was a kid, I really enjoyed them.

stewbacca wrote:
I personally think everyone just like to complain about stuff that no one in reality really gives a crap about

Exactly.

BCYa wrote:
I wish there was an easy way for us to fix this distribution problem, so we can buy the figs/cars/toys we want and the companies and make the ones we want to buy, and everyone can be happy. Hasbro definitely does it a lot better than Mattel, but even they could change some stuff

Go back to what Jim_Abell said above:

Jim_Abell wrote:
Another thing that people seldom take into account is that the manufacturers have very little to do with distribution.

Distribution isn't really Mattel's problem to fix. All they can really do is make suggestions to retailers. As for there being more of a certain STAR WARS figure on eBay than a certain JLU figure, well, there is a greater demand for STAR WARS figures, so Hasbro makes more of those than Mattel makes of the JLU characters. Supply and demand is very basic Economics 101. That doesn't mean Hasbro is doing things any better than Mattel. As someone who collects both company's products, I can guarantee that is not the case. It just means STAR WARS is a lot more popular.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 111 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], tuning4k


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright © www.actionfigureinsider.com


[ Time : 0.057s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]