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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:22 am 
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Arrakhat wrote:
You know what else Hasbro is doing that Mattel isn't? Making Star Wars toys. Way to miss out on that one, Mattel.

You know what else they're doing? They're leaving retailers with empty pegs where the carded 25th Anniversary G.I. Joe figures are supposed to be. For all the complaints about too many Trinity packs, at least there are some Justice League Unlimited figures in the toy aisles. Hasbro isn't as on top of their game as some people seem to imagine.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:44 am 
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Arrakhat wrote:
This has turned into multiple posters articulately explaining the case ratio situation, and geoffdude arguing anyway.
Actually it's interesting. I feel like I'm watching Metabrawl. Everytime I come in there's two different people arguing. LOL

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:44 am 
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Moderator hijacking this thread.

Let's not waste bandwith repeating ourselves. Unless anyone has anything new to say on this, I'd like to say this discussion is done.

Locking under consideration...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:51 am 
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superfriend wrote:
Moderator hijacking this thread.

Let's not waste bandwith repeating ourselves. Unless anyone has anything new to say on this, I'd like to say this discussion is done.

Locking under consideration...


Before you do that...


Oh. My. Gawd.

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Valley Girl, really? Sigh...
----------------------

Caped Crusader wrote:
I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said, but the case ratios are based on requests from corporate buyers from the large retailers.

---------------------
Who said it? And where? I don't recall ever seeing that mentioned here in conjunction with these trinity packs. Which is what I've been discussing. I know Wal-Mart does this, I even stated that previously. But the current "Trinity" cases ratio packs were not requested my any specific retailer, only that they wanted figures which slanted heavy towards Batman and Superman. Again, "figures" "characters" vs "case ratios", that's the issue.
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geoffdude wrote:
Actually, in this case, you're 100% wrong.

geoffdude wrote:
But "he" decided it (case ratios) not the retailers, "based" on request from the retailers.

I'm not sure if it's funny or sad.
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It's funny, because it's only toys after all. That, and I smile seeing you get flustered.
---------------

Caped Crusader wrote:
Because you're right, and everyone else - Mattel employees included - is wrong.

geoffdude wrote:
Now you get it. Smile

So what's life like in Neverland?
-----------------
Currently really hot.
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geoffdude wrote:
They don't. They buy an "assortment" of a "toy line". I think you need to try and better understand the issue at hand.

When you start to "better understand" what's even being posted to this thread, then we can come back to me.

--------------
I think you mean "I" can come back to "you", but you also really mean "issue" there too. But I get what you're trying to say, and I understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it.
-------------

They buy that "assortment" based on what it contains.
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True, but "contains" in the way of "characters", not what case ratios they are in (at the time). At the time orders are placed, I doubt the case ratios have even been finalized. Store buyers order "assortments" a year or more in advance, based on characters, not case ratios.
--------------

Caped Crusader wrote:
I worked in manufacturing for several years before I got into the entertainment industry. That ain't how it works, sport.

geoffdude wrote:
Don't know about the rest here, but that doesn't impress me. Should it?

You have an overactive imagination if you think that was intended to impress you.
----------------
Well, when you start throwing your resume about like a banner, then that's the natural implication. Otherwise, who cares what you do for a living?
-----------

geoffdude wrote:
I've worked in Marketing for a major media business for over 20 years. So what? That doesn't relate to anything being discussed here... especially when most of this is based on perspective.

But not manufacturing, which is exactly what does relate to the discussion.
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Um, how exactly? I truly don't see the connection. What "specifically" did you do (type of job) that makes you so sure as to how Mattel's BW decided upon the case ratio for these trinity packs? "Manufacturing" can be anything, even sweeping the floor of the plant.
--------------
You obviously know nothing about that side of business, or else you wouldn't be persisting in an argument with people who 1) have worked in that sector, 2) have worked for toy manufacturers, and 3) have had face-to-face conversations with the Mattel staff responsible for this line. You've gone from telling me I was "100% wrong" to repeating exactly what I said back to me, so can I have my "perspective" back now?
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No, again you're 100% wrong. I've never stated that I know more about anything. Only that, based on what I've read here & elsewhere, the current case ratios were determined by Mattel and BW. And that ONLY the Big 3 "characters" (again not ratios) were specifically requested to be well represented. With that as a basis, I stated, and stand by, my perspective, and choose to not follow your "insider toy industry perspective". I believe Mattel should be responsible for all things they control. Fair enough?
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geoffdude wrote:
By the way "pops"

I'm your junior by at least a decade, but okay... Confused
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That's easy to do it seems. But OK I'll explain.. I figured by the tone of your comments that you were younger than me. But you called me "sport", (typically in a fashion where the one saying it is the elder) so I went contrary too, and used "pops" in reply. I was being factitious.
---------

geoffdude wrote:
if the *retailers (as you propose) are so in control of Mattel's case ratio configuration, so much that Mattel can't do anything themselves without permission, then how is Mattel's BW or TG going to fix the ratio and distribution problems as it was "clearly" stated "they" were going to do?

They have to convince retailers to buy a more diverse line, which they know will be easier to do with a Batman film being released in 2008. It's called a sales pitch, and that's their job. I would think someone who's spent 20+ years working for a company that generates its revenue by selling ads on a few radio stations and in little newspapers would understand that concept.
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Now here I must say I have heard nothing about their "actual" plan(s) to resolve this mess other than fixing it. But, I don't think you have either. So I must conclude you are guessing. However, if I had to guess too, I would say that they will just change future case ratios to be a better mix, make those available to store buyers, do away with over heavy trinity cases, and call it a day. No sales pitch will be needed. That's what Toy Fair is for, Buyers see the characters, buy the "line" then get their choice of "assortments" that Mattel develops, which is based on currently available characters. That's my guess.

gd

(OK lock away...)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:19 am 
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>>Caped Crusader, superfriend and Jim Abell already did a fine job of responding to this. The retailers know exactly what sells and what doesn't.<<

>>Wal-Mart & TRU do, Target not so much. (at least individual figures) When all the JLU tracks through as the same item, the home office looks at the sales of skin/sku (whatever) as a whole, then they ultimately clear items out that don't sell based on the whole category, not just an individual, poor selling, unit (figure).<<


If what you're saying here is true, wouldn't Target have stopped carrying the JLU line by now? Unless, of course, those trinity three packs are selling ...

>>And it is indeed the retailers who determine the case ratios.<<

>>No it isn't, they "suggest". Mattel does not employ the retailers. They wanted the trinity packs, I never said they didn't, but it was Mattel that decided to place 3 or 4 per case. Sure Wal-Mart may order "specific" case mixes, and "special" case ratios, but that's typically for specials. Mattel's research Dept., and line managers, ultimately determine what each "regular" case ratio will be.<<


And that flys completely in the face of what I've been told by Mattel employees at SDCC. And not just Mattel, but Hasbro and Toybiz as well.

Listen, I'm sorry, but who should I believe here? The brand managers who work for the toy companies or you? Where exactly are you getting this information?

>>They (Mattel) are basically on the path to killing the line.<<

Except that the DC brand managers and Cornboy have said on numerous occasions that JLU and the 6" line are selling well.

>>At some point, when does basic business common sense kick in? You can't keep doing the same wrong things the same. Try some new wrong things every once in awhile. That's how businesses find long lasting success, and in this case it's how a toy line may find long lasting life.<<

The JLU line has been around for a few years now and is in no danger of cancellation, so I'm not sure why you're so concerned.

>>if the *retailers (as you propose) are so in control of Mattel's case ratio configuration, so much that Mattel can't do anything themselves without permission, then how is Mattel's BW or TG going to fix the ratio and distribution problems as it was "clearly" stated "they" were going to do?<<

I think you will see more even case ratios with the 6" line because of the BAF. Remember Marvel Legends prior to the BAF concept? Brown Wolverines were in abundance, but Phoenix was nowhere in sight. Along came the BAF and all that changed. I suspect the same thing will happen with the DCSH 6" line. Retailers know that kids and collectors like to put those BAFS together.

As for JLU (Or whatever it will be called) the focus of the line will change once it gets rebranded. It will be more collector orientated and less "Mom friendly". That may help with the case ratios, but I suspect that some figures are still going to be hard to find no matter what.

Mike
(Okay. Your serve.) :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:07 am 
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geoffdude wrote:
Who said it? And where?

Try reading the threads in this section of the forum.

geoffdude wrote:
I don't recall ever seeing that mentioned here in conjunction with these trinity packs. Which is what I've been discussing. I know Wal-Mart does this, I even stated that previously. But the current "Trinity" cases ratio packs were not requested my any specific retailer, only that they wanted figures which slanted heavy towards Batman and Superman.

Boy Wonder said the Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman figures were packed heavily because that's what the retailers want, and you were participating in that very thread. Furthermore, my point was that the case assortments are based on requests from the retailers, not one specific retailer.

geoffdude wrote:
It's funny, because it's only toys after all. That, and I smile seeing you get flustered.

I'm not at all flustered, so don't give yourself more credit than you deserve. I'm sort of... in awe, I suppose, but in an amused kind of way.

geoffdude wrote:
I think you mean "I" can come back to "you", but you also really mean "issue" there too. But I get what you're trying to say, and I understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it.

No, I don't mean any of that. I mean exactly what I said.

geoffdude wrote:
True, but "contains" in the way of "characters", not what case ratios they are in (at the time). At the time orders are placed, I doubt the case ratios have even been finalized.

Wow. Again:

Caped Crusader wrote:
So while Target may not say, "If we buy these, there has to be six Trinity packs in every case of twelve," the Mattel guys have to say, "Half of every case is filled with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, just like you guys wanted," in order to make the sale.

I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing. As SDcomics said, he has had face-to-face discussions with brand managers from the various major manufacturers, and he gets nothing that would support your idea of how things work. Why is that? How can you know so much more about their jobs than they do?

geoffdude wrote:
Well, when you start throwing your resume about like a banner, then that's the natural implication. Otherwise, who cares what you do for a living?

Someone interested in learning from those more knowledgeable than him, perhaps? For example, I understand that superfriend, based on his working history, is more knowledgeable than I am on many of these subjects, so I learn from him when I can.

geoffdude wrote:
Um, how exactly? I truly don't see the connection. What "specifically" did you do (type of job) that makes you so sure as to how Mattel's BW decided upon the case ratio for these trinity packs? "Manufacturing" can be anything, even sweeping the floor of the plant.

I did exactly what the Mattel and Hasbro employees who pitch products to retailers do, from going to trade shows and meeting with retailers to conducting private sessions with them. It most certainly is not a matter of showing the buyers a line of products, getting a commitment, and shipping them whatever assortment pleases you, which is the delusion under which you appear to be operating.

geoffdude wrote:
No, again you're 100% wrong.

Even though you repeated back what I said originally... That makes us both 100% wrong. :lol:

geoffdude wrote:
I've never stated that I know more about anything. Only that, based on what I've read here & elsewhere, the current case ratios were determined by Mattel and BW.

Based on - as I originally said, as you have been told by others, and as Boy Wonder himself stated - requests from retailers.

geoffdude wrote:
I believe Mattel should be responsible for all things they control. Fair enough?

They do not control the distribution, so no, it's not even close to "fair".

geoffdude wrote:
That's easy to do it seems.

Right. You still haven't grasped "because that's what the retailers want" yet.

geoffdude wrote:
I figured by the tone of your comments that you were younger than me. But you called me "sport", (typically in a fashion where the one saying it is the elder) so I went contrary too, and used "pops" in reply. I was being factitious.

Oh, that explains it. You just don't know what sport means. Gotcha.

SDcomics wrote:
And that flys completely in the face of what I've been told by Mattel employees at SDCC. And not just Mattel, but Hasbro and Toybiz as well.

Listen, I'm sorry, but who should I believe here? The brand managers who work for the toy companies or you?

And it all basically comes down to that.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:35 am 
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Caped Crusader wrote:
Arrakhat wrote:
You know what else Hasbro is doing that Mattel isn't? Making Star Wars toys. Way to miss out on that one, Mattel.

You know what else they're doing? They're leaving retailers with empty pegs where the carded 25th Anniversary G.I. Joe figures are supposed to be. For all the complaints about too many Trinity packs, at least there are some Justice League Unlimited figures in the toy aisles. Hasbro isn't as on top of their game as some people seem to imagine.


Well, I think the problem is, the Volcana and Stagirl 3-packs came out HOW LONG AGO? And so man people here still haven't seen them.

The GI Joes are fairly new, and Hasbro just needs to keep making them to fill the demand. They should be happy the figures are selling and that fans want more. I have seen the Joes come and go and I'm sure they will come again.

I'm not confident of that at all when it comes to the JLU. Mattel seems to just keeping making the wrong figures, and nobody wants them, thus the peg clogging. This stuff really isn't rocket science. But they do the same things with all their lines (Cars, recent MOTU), thus leaving stores full of figures that don't sell and us without what we want. Which makes no one happy, and yet Mattel never seems to learn. They must be learning disabled.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:48 am 
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Caped Crusader wrote:
Arrakhat wrote:
You know what else Hasbro is doing that Mattel isn't? Making Star Wars toys. Way to miss out on that one, Mattel.

You know what else they're doing? They're leaving retailers with empty pegs where the carded 25th Anniversary G.I. Joe figures are supposed to be. For all the complaints about too many Trinity packs, at least there are some Justice League Unlimited figures in the toy aisles. Hasbro isn't as on top of their game as some people seem to imagine.

Yeah... I was just kidding around. You wanna get all serious, duke it out with geoffdude. His responses are funny.

But to match your serious note, I never saw Volcana or Stargirl/Parasite. I never saw Huntress 2.0 or Blue Devil, nor could I find Justice Lords 3pack 2.0, Star Sapphire/Sand, or Obsidian, or Vigilante in my area. Saying we've got older trinity packs is like saying that GIJoe fans have the older figures or more common figures. I'd say neither company is perfect (far from it), but Hasbro has shown better results in my area, in any case. I understand that it's a mixed bag everywhere else.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:09 am 
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Arrakhat wrote:
His responses are funny.

Yes. Yes, they are.

Arrakhat wrote:
But to match your serious note, I never saw Volcana or Stargirl/Parasite. I never saw Huntress 2.0 or Blue Devil, nor could I find Justice Lords 3pack 2.0, Star Sapphire/Sand, or Obsidian, or Vigilante in my area. Saying we've got older trinity packs is like saying that GIJoe fans have the older figures or more common figures. I'd say neither company is perfect (far from it), but Hasbro has shown better results in my area, in any case. I understand that it's a mixed bag everywhere else.

Well, the Obsidian pack is still new, as are the Barda/Deadshot pack and Blue Devil. Those are the only figures I don't have yet, and I'd have been surprised to see them in my area this soon. There hasn't exactly been a shortage of new stuff on the pegs around me, though, with Hawkman and Joker packs aplenty, so it's not just old Trinity packs around here. And that regional difference goes back to what's been said time and time again, that distribution is not up to the manufacturers, but rather the retail chains. There's not a Mattel truck or a Hasbro truck that pulls up to Target's loading dock.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:03 pm 
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I'm not going to go back through all of these posts to grab quotes, but basically, yes retailers can and do "suggest" case ratios thing is, if they don't get the case ratios they've "suggested" then they just decide not to buy the cases. And that doesn't always mean that they won't cancel before production starts, if they decide something isn't selling well enough they'll cancel their orders during a production run, that's how some of the "good stuff" and the tail-end items end up at Big Lots and KB or like the Jurassic Park 3 blowouts that Wal-Mart had a year after the toys were gone from the shelves. Manufacturers don't want to have an order cancelled, especially one that involves new tooling or a production run that's already been started.

As for how Target tracks sales, at store level all they track is by the assortment (I work for Wal-Mart, assortment sales are all we can pull up at store level, too) but at the national level they track everything so that they *and* the manufacturers have solid numbers on what sold well and how fast, otherwise what's the point of individual bar codes?

Retailers and past trends also have a lot to say about what ends up in cases and on store shelves. Read any history Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles toys and you'll find that all of the major companies turned down the license simply because statistics at that time showed that kids didn't like green toys. Considering how hard TMNT figures were to find that first Christmas the retailers believed those statists, too. Talking to Hasbro's GI Joe team years ago brought up the fact that Zaranna had been such a horrible seller followed by dismal sales on Jinx kept female characters out of the Joe line -- at retailers' request -- until '92s Ninja Force line and after that all we got was Scarlett and Chun Li until the TRU re-boot in '97. Another example, Mattel passed on Teen Titans the first time around because Wal-Mart didn't want a line that has so many girls in it, Bandai took the license and ran with it and had a major success without Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart picked up on wave 2 or 3 and over-ordered on the regular assortment and exclusive (repack) 2 packs and got stuck with a ton of merchandise and dropped the line again -- Wal-Mart got what they wanted and helped kill the line in the process. Retailers have already committed to paying-in-full to the manufacturers by the time a toy reaches the shelves, they want to turn that item around fast and make the full profit that they've calculated into the price, all they can do is look at past trends and make their decisions based on that because those buyers want to show their bosses that they've made "good" decisions and what they've bought has sold through so that they'll get their bonuses and be considered for that promotion out of toys... It boils down to retail is going to buy what they "think" will sell and if they aren't going to get what they want (or what they've been convinced to take by a saavy marketing team) they simply aren't going to take it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:42 pm 
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I'm not going to go back through all of these posts to grab quotes, but basically, yes retailers can and do "suggest" case ratios thing is, if they don't get the case ratios they've "suggested" then they just decide not to buy the cases.
--------------------------
I agree, and understand. However, re-order seems to be what you mean. Since they've already taken delivery on the initial order.
--------------------------
And that doesn't always mean that they won't cancel before production starts, if they decide something isn't selling well enough they'll cancel their orders during a production run, that's how some of the "good stuff" and the tail-end items end up at Big Lots and KB or like the Jurassic Park 3 blowouts that Wal-Mart had a year after the toys were gone from the shelves. Manufacturers don't want to have an order cancelled, especially one that involves new tooling or a production run that's already been started.
-----------------------------
I understand this too, seems like a dance that can only be fun and rewarding for both participants for a limited time.
-------------------------------
As for how Target tracks sales, at store level all they track is by the assortment (I work for Wal-Mart, assortment sales are all we can pull up at store level, too) but at the national level they track everything so that they *and* the manufacturers have solid numbers on what sold well and how fast, otherwise what's the point of individual bar codes?
--------------------------
The bar codes are for individual tracking sure, and smaller stores need them as well. Wal-Mart can tell exactly what single unit was bought, and returned, on the store level, even with it being within an assortment. But, again, for Target, nothing they do on the store level relates to that bar code, other than the category-unit being tracked. I agree they probably do use the "data" on each bar code sales' at the national level, but it drills down to the sku level for overall line sales, new orders or clearing items out.
-----------------------------

Retailers and past trends also have a lot to say about what ends up in cases and on store shelves. Read any history Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles toys and you'll find that all of the major companies turned down the license simply because statistics at that time showed that kids didn't like green toys. Considering how hard TMNT figures were to find that first Christmas the retailers believed those statists, too. Talking to Hasbro's GI Joe team years ago brought up the fact that Zaranna had been such a horrible seller followed by dismal sales on Jinx kept female characters out of the Joe line -- at retailers' request -- until '92s Ninja Force line and after that all we got was Scarlett and Chun Li until the TRU re-boot in '97. Another example, Mattel passed on Teen Titans the first time around because Wal-Mart didn't want a line that has so many girls in it, Bandai took the license and ran with it and had a major success without Wal-Mart.
----------------
See? This underscores my point that the "Big" retailers don't always know what's best, and Mattel really needs to look after it's own skin, and a lines long-term ability to grow. They react, instead of being proactive.
------------------
Wal-Mart picked up on wave 2 or 3 and over-ordered on the regular assortment and exclusive (repack) 2 packs and got stuck with a ton of merchandise and dropped the line again -- Wal-Mart got what they wanted and helped kill the line in the process.
-------------------
Which most of us know, and why I'm concerned that this specific retailer "suggestion" of the Trinity packs, and Mattel's case ratio in response, is going to ill affect the future of the JLU line.
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Retailers have already committed to paying-in-full to the manufacturers by the time a toy reaches the shelves, they want to turn that item around fast and make the full profit that they've calculated into the price, all they can do is look at past trends and make their decisions based on that because those buyers want to show their bosses that they've made "good" decisions and what they've bought has sold through so that they'll get their bonuses and be considered for that promotion out of toys... It boils down to retail is going to buy what they "think" will sell and if they aren't going to get what they want (or what they've been convinced to take by a saavy marketing team) they simply aren't going to take it.
---------------------
Which is what I've been saying all along.

gd

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:04 pm 
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geoffdude wrote:
I'm not going to go back through all of these posts to grab quotes, but basically, yes retailers can and do "suggest" case ratios thing is, if they don't get the case ratios they've "suggested" then they just decide not to buy the cases.
--------------------------
I agree, and understand. However, re-order seems to be what you mean. Since they've already taken delivery on the initial order.


No, I'm talking about initial orders. Wal-Mart, Target and TRU all see the plans for lines months before the smaller retailers even know the lines are going to be offered and normally if even one of those three balks and doesn't buy into the line the line will never make it to retail. The big retailers know that Batman and Superman sell and if they feel that a case doesn't have enough of them in it they're going to have to be "convinced" by the sales team to take the product mix being offered or else the manufacturer is going to have to change the product mix to meet what the retailer wants. Technically, you may be right that the retailers don't actually say that they want a specific mix but that doesn't mean that they can't keep refusing case mixes that they are offered until they finally get the one they "suggested", but then isn't that really just a round-about way of the retailers getting what they asked for in the first place?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:04 pm 
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Try reading the threads in this section of the forum.
-----------------
This dodge towards providing supportive facts is an old forum tactic, and it's a cop-out, just show some creditable references if you can.
--------------

geoffdude wrote:
I don't recall ever seeing that mentioned here in conjunction with these trinity packs. Which is what I've been discussing. I know Wal-Mart does this, I even stated that previously. But the current "Trinity" cases ratio packs were not requested my any specific retailer, only that they wanted figures which slanted heavy towards Batman and Superman.

Boy Wonder said the Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman figures were packed heavily because that's what the retailers want, and you were participating in that very thread. Furthermore, my point was that the case assortments are based on requests from the retailers, not one specific retailer.

-------------
I understand that, but case ratios are ultimately determined by BW / Mattel. Point; and broken record.
-------------

geoffdude wrote:
It's funny, because it's only toys after all. That, and I smile seeing you get flustered.

I'm not at all flustered, so don't give yourself more credit than you deserve. I'm sort of... in awe, I suppose, but in an amused kind of way.
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I give myself all the credit... and you dance divine.
-------------

geoffdude wrote:
I think you mean "I" can come back to "you", but you also really mean "issue" there too. But I get what you're trying to say, and I understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it.

No, I don't mean any of that. I mean exactly what I said.

-------------
Then you need to understand the application, and definitions, of singular and plural better, because that statement needs to be reworked.
Quote:
"When you start to "better understand" what's even being posted to this thread, then we can come back to me. "
------------

geoffdude wrote:
True, but "contains" in the way of "characters", not what case ratios they are in (at the time). At the time orders are placed, I doubt the case ratios have even been finalized.

Wow. Again:

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Thanks, I'm pretty "wow-derful"..
--------

Caped Crusader wrote:
So while Target may not say, "If we buy these, there has to be six Trinity packs in every case of twelve," the Mattel guys have to say, "Half of every case is filled with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, just like you guys wanted," in order to make the sale.

I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing. As SDcomics said, he has had face-to-face discussions with brand managers from the various major manufacturers, and he gets nothing that would support your idea of how things work. Why is that? How can you know so much more about their jobs than they do?

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I'm not really arguing, just standing by what I believe. I'm saying that "MATTEL" decides what action to take on developing case ratios. That's all I've ever said. So far, nothing you have said has proven that contention wrong.
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geoffdude wrote:
Well, when you start throwing your resume about like a banner, then that's the natural implication. Otherwise, who cares what you do for a living?

Someone interested in learning from those more knowledgeable than him, perhaps? For example, I understand that superfriend, based on his working history, is more knowledgeable than I am on many of these subjects, so I learn from him when I can.
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Learning about "your perspective" you mean. Which, I already know quite well. So why keep on?
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geoffdude wrote:
Um, how exactly? I truly don't see the connection. What "specifically" did you do (type of job) that makes you so sure as to how Mattel's BW decided upon the case ratio for these trinity packs? "Manufacturing" can be anything, even sweeping the floor of the plant.

I did exactly what the Mattel and Hasbro employees who pitch products to retailers do, from going to trade shows and meeting with retailers to conducting private sessions with them. It most certainly is not a matter of showing the buyers a line of products, getting a commitment, and shipping them whatever assortment pleases you, which is the delusion under which you appear to be operating.

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I believe this... Buyers see product (TF show, sales pitch, industry publications, etc, what ever), buyers ask Sale Rep about product, buyers may ask about "exclusive" product(s), buyer affirms to purchase product, or buyer declines to purchase product, and or buyer may request different items within a product line, etc. Much more than that I don't know.

And, I never said retailers were shipped whatever Mattel wanted to. You enjoy speaking disingenuously, or still have that comprehension problem, either way try and keep the facts straight.
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geoffdude wrote:
No, again you're 100% wrong.

Even though you repeated back what I said originally... That makes us both 100% wrong. Laughing

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It's the context, not the words. This really seem to trip you up.
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geoffdude wrote:
I've never stated that I know more about anything. Only that, based on what I've read here & elsewhere, the current case ratios were determined by Mattel and BW.

Based on - as I originally said, as you have been told by others, and as Boy Wonder himself stated - requests from retailers.
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Um, Ok?
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geoffdude wrote:
I believe Mattel should be responsible for all things they control. Fair enough?

They do not control the distribution, so no, it's not even close to "fair".
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Yes they do control it, that's the "point". Even if it fails, they've determined what path(s) to lay or follow.
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geoffdude wrote:
That's easy to do it seems.

Right. You still haven't grasped "because that's what the retailers want" yet.

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Yes I have, but that's not related to who sets the case ratios that go out, which by the way is Mattel.
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geoffdude wrote:
I figured by the tone of your comments that you were younger than me. But you called me "sport", (typically in a fashion where the one saying it is the elder) so I went contrary too, and used "pops" in reply. I was being factitious.

Oh, that explains it. You just don't know what sport means. Gotcha.
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What does "sport" mean? Truly. I'm curious, but supply a real answer though, not your typical childish kind.
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SDcomics wrote:
And that flys completely in the face of what I've been told by Mattel employees at SDCC. And not just Mattel, but Hasbro and Toybiz as well.

Listen, I'm sorry, but who should I believe here? The brand managers who work for the toy companies or you?

And it all basically comes down to that.
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It most certainly does, as I've always been of the mind that my beliefs are my own, and try as you might (and unless proven otherwise), I'll just continue on with that philosophy. And, I don't think I've ever said you "must" believe me. Contrary to how you're "trying" to convey your perspective(s).

gd

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:15 pm 
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>>Caped Crusader, superfriend and Jim Abell already did a fine job of responding to this. The retailers know exactly what sells and what doesn't.<<

>>Wal-Mart & TRU do, Target not so much. (at least individual figures) When all the JLU tracks through as the same item, the home office looks at the sales of skin/sku (whatever) as a whole, then they ultimately clear items out that don't sell based on the whole category, not just an individual, poor selling, unit (figure).<<

If what you're saying here is true, wouldn't Target have stopped carrying the JLU line by now? Unless, of course, those trinity three packs are selling ...
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What I said above is true. But I never said Target would, or should, "stop" carrying the line. When Target clears items out, it's as a whole category, not just the one poor performing 3-pack style or single.
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>>And it is indeed the retailers who determine the case ratios.<<

>>No it isn't, they "suggest". Mattel does not employ the retailers. They wanted the trinity packs, I never said they didn't, but it was Mattel that decided to place 3 or 4 per case. Sure Wal-Mart may order "specific" case mixes, and "special" case ratios, but that's typically for specials. Mattel's research Dept., and line managers, ultimately determine what each "regular" case ratio will be.<<

And that flys completely in the face of what I've been told by Mattel employees at SDCC. And not just Mattel, but Hasbro and Toybiz as well.
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At the end of the day, Mattel decides, who sculpts the line, case ratios, character selection, line managers, etc. They run their company, not the retailers. The retailers can "suggest" "influence" "refuse purchase" whatever... but Mattel decides, and either gets buyers' orders (sales) or doesn't based upon what they choose to do. Wal-Mart is not going to send a Wally employee to Mattel's Corp office to set ratio standards for Mattel's products.
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Listen, I'm sorry, but who should I believe here? The brand managers who work for the toy companies or you? Where exactly are you getting this information?
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It's called basic common sense, and perspective. And I've never read (or heard) that Mattel is "dictated" to on how to develop their business plan via case ratios aka product distribution, so until I hear that, I figure basic business sense must prevail.
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>>They (Mattel) are basically on the path to killing the line.<<

Except that the DC brand managers and Cornboy have said on numerous occasions that JLU and the 6" line are selling well.
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I'm talking current JLU situation only (not 6 inch figs), and I can only go by what I see in the stores, and other people posting about stale product on the shelves (pegs). Previous sales I'm sure were fine. But, many Wal-Marts don't even carry JLU anymore (currently), so they couldn't have been that great last quarter.
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>>At some point, when does basic business common sense kick in? You can't keep doing the same wrong things the same. Try some new wrong things every once in awhile. That's how businesses find long lasting success, and in this case it's how a toy line may find long lasting life.<<

The JLU line has been around for a few years now and is in no danger of cancellation, so I'm not sure why you're so concerned.
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Not concerned too much (just toys after all), but I fault Mattel for the current situation of little to no new JLU product being available. You guys don't, I get it. But you're not going to change what I believe, so why keep on trying?
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>>if the *retailers (as you propose) are so in control of Mattel's case ratio configuration, so much that Mattel can't do anything themselves without permission, then how is Mattel's BW or TG going to fix the ratio and distribution problems as it was "clearly" stated "they" were going to do?<<

I think you will see more even case ratios with the 6" line because of the BAF. Remember Marvel Legends prior to the BAF concept? Brown Wolverines were in abundance, but Phoenix was nowhere in sight. Along came the BAF and all that changed. I suspect the same thing will happen with the DCSH 6" line. Retailers know that kids and collectors like to put those BAFS together.
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It didn't change too much in CA... but in principle I agree with you for the 6 inch line, they (hopefully) will be easier to acquire. The JLU though, that's another matter. And I truly hope it becomes easier to find and purchase these too at some point.
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As for JLU (Or whatever it will be called) the focus of the line will change once it gets rebranded. It will be more collector orientated and less "Mom friendly". That may help with the case ratios, but I suspect that some figures are still going to be hard to find no matter what.

Mike
(Okay. Your serve.) Wink
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The focus can change, but if the line is perceived as not being very profitable, then it will get axed. (see Jim's point above) I hope this is not the case (thus my reason for posting at all) but unless Mattel starts getting some new, and varied, JLU product to the shelves then it may very well happen. And, currently, based on new Mattel JLU product availability, the issue of Mattel's JLU sales is darn near moot.

gd

Right back at ya...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:25 pm 
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geoffdude wrote:
geoffdude wrote:
I believe Mattel should be responsible for all things they control. Fair enough?

They do not control the distribution, so no, it's not even close to "fair".
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Yes they do control it, that's the "point". Even if it fails, they've determined what path(s) to lay or follow.
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Again, Mattel does not control distribution to the major retailers. I'm not sure if this is a confusion between case ratios and case distribution. It boils down to, say, Target ordering 2,000 cases of the Stargirl mix and 2,000 cases of the Volcana mix. Mattel has the factory manufacture that many of each case for Target which Target takes possession of in China and Target ships them to the Target warehouses in the states. Once the product is in the states then Target ships it out to their regional distribution centers which then send them to the stores those DCs service. If the cases shipped to the DCs in the northwest are only the Stargirl mix and the cases shipped to the north east are only the Volcana mix then that screw up is on Target's end and Mattel has absolutely nothing to do with that and they have no way of correcting Target's mistake.


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