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 Post subject: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:52 pm 
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This is just my opinion, but Mattel's choices in character selection in the DC action figure lines is one of the big reasons for their continuing failure. They have made figures of characters that many people don't even know, yet they ignore well-known chararters that could help in sales.

An example of this is DCUC. Why didn't Mattel ever make Poison Ivy or Mad Hatter or Black Mask earlier in the line? JLU totally ignored Batman villians after they botched the Matty four-pack. They could have done Firefly earlier or Black Mask or Hugo Strange or Maxie Zeus or Mad Hatter in the antimated style. These characters have more recognition that so many of the JLU figures that just became peg warmers.

I'd have put out a Batman with Bruce Wayne head with battle-damaged paint apps. Same with Superman or some of the other JLU members. These would have kept the sales going, but with a slight variant and low cost to Mattel.

I didn't bother with Young Justice because you just knew the line would tank after their first wave just sat in the stores. I've yet to see the Batman/Robin two-pack or the Ra's Al Ghul figure on the shelves. These would have been some of the figures that I would have pushed at the beginning of the line. Oh well, I guess we'll just see what comes next from Mattel's next DC experiment. I'd re-launch JLU as a Batman/Superman Animated hybrid line, but that's just my perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:34 am 
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I think they'll never do something as cool as a Batman/Superman animated line, but it's a great idea....
They could again, release anything DC in animated style and call it a Batman/Superman collection to entice the "moms" and kids...


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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:49 am 
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rono wrote:
They could have done Firefly earlier or Black Mask or Hugo Strange or Maxie Zeus or Mad Hatter


To the common shopper at retail (which is their audience), these characters are no different than a disco brainiac or a Kamandi.


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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:11 am 
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If you've ever worked in retail, especially in toys then you'll know parents have no clue. At Christmas time they'll buy anything. Now, this is the average parent not in the loop. We... are not average parents, we know these characters like sports fanatics know sports statistics. If you packaged Firefly with the Batman logo, a parent will find it, look at it and say "Hmmm, he looks bad, he must be a Batman villain. My little Billy has Batman, this will give him someone to fight." and in the shopping cart he goes.

So Firefly or anyone else isn't that farfetched, it could be My Little Pony as long as it has that Batman emblem on the package, it'll sell. Kamandi would have sold better had he the Bat symbol or the Superman 'S' Shield on his package.

Like Transformers, anyone sells as long as he is a robot that turns into a car.

Sometimes these peg warmers we see in these lines are just figures who are packaged heavily in a case. Or if there is an even assortment in a case it's just a build up of how many cases a store receives. And that brings me to the problem with ordering. If you have a case of say... 12 Young Justice figures and each case contains 2 of each. You have 4 cases, 48 figures, they all sell yet Captain Marvel doesn't. You now have 8 Captain Marvels on the pegs. The store gets two more cases. They sell down except for Captain Marvel, now you have 10 Captain Marvels on peg hooks. By now, two and a half pegs are full of a carded figure. Computers don't determine individual sku codes within a multiple assortment and now less and less cases come to a store because they show they have stock on hand.

Now to bring this back around to the point, this is what causes a lot of toy lines to fail at retail.

Sometimes it's so much people aren't buying... it's that they've bought all they could. Mattel should spend more time at a store level with their reps. Hasbro does it on a regular basis and even today Star Wars buy backs are always happening to free up integrities for new stock.

Just my view of what constitutes as or contributes to Mattel's failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:27 am 
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rono...I don't know where you get off saying that all of the DC lines are a failure, especially DCUC. How can anyone say DCUC is a failure after 20 waves, tons of 2-packs and the spinoff that was DCIH (granted if they could've made those like MU figs...)

If they had released every 1st & 2nd string character right off the bat, then the line would've died a lot sooner! Do you know how many of fans hung in there until wave 15 just to get Martian Manhunter? We didn't get Superman till wave 6 & Flash until wave 7 either!!! If they would've continued with their patters up till wave 15, I tend to think they might have lasted a bit longer, maybe until wave 25. Once wave 16 hit, there was no longer something for everyone, you had to really be a Batman fan the only character that stood apart was Mercury. Even Jonah Hex & Creeper have Batman ties (loosely). Then we got rainbow wave, superfriends wave and JSA wave. While the latter was hailed by most...I do not like the JSA and I'm sure there are others so once again...not something for everyone.

While I think the complete themed wave was a bad move and if they had picked an anchor character and one or two others to tie into him and then build teams or the randomness of the DC Universe around the wave, you will not find me saying that DC has failed in all their lines. Nothing lasts forever and while DCUC in particular didn't come even close to finishing the Titans my favorite team...I look at my shelf of characters I never thought would see the light of day and think we are pretty spoiled.
Boots

P.S. Van Statten, I thought your summary of what happens in retail was very informative. Really helped put that piece into perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:35 am 
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Boots Bailey wrote:
P.S. Van Statten, I thought your summary of what happens in retail was very informative. Really helped put that piece into perspective.

Thank you! Right now my Target has 3 pegs for DCuC. Granted there's no other waves coming but let's say there's a Wave 21. Right now those hooks are full of Wave 20 Sinestro, Green Lantern, Reverse Flash and Dove. That's it! Until they sell down, there won't be another case coming anytime soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:46 am 
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j1h15233 wrote:
rono wrote:
They could have done Firefly earlier or Black Mask or Hugo Strange or Maxie Zeus or Mad Hatter


To the common shopper at retail (which is their audience), these characters are no different than a disco brainiac or a Kamandi.

Still doesn't explain why we never got Catwoman, Riddler, or for pity's sake, Dick Grayson Robin. Any Robin would have done but it's hard to fathom why they resisted some of the bigger Batman baddies after the line became all-encompassing. Even characters like Mr. Freeze, Two-Face, Poison Ivy and Ra's Al Ghul got some recognition from the live-action Batman movies and would have made good figures.

Although to be honest, I don't think it would have made the line last any longer. I'm just pettily complaing because I'd rather have those characters than the Superfriends, the JSA or the Doom Patrol.

But seriously, JLU had a great run. Mattel went above and beyond with the line and I don't really have any real complaints left. If they manage to get the prototype Young Justice figures out to the fans via Matty I might reconsider whether or not to finally get into the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:02 am 
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It's over with.Let it be a learning experience and move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:05 am 
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comicbookreader wrote:
It's over with.Let it be a learning experience and move on.

What's the lesson then, Teach... not to invest in Mattel DC lines? :lol: Ever?

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:13 am 
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In my opinion Mattel has done an OK job with the DC License, they could have done things a lot better. I think everybody here knows the issues that have plagued Mattel from character selection to distribution to quality control to Digital River to product management to missed opportunities and so on.

In the beginning Justice League was becoming a Batman / Superman centric line with several variants of these figures as well as a few of Wonder Woman and Green Lantern and it would have died at retail many years ago had it not evolved into Justice League Unlimited. JLU became the Super Powers Collection for a whole new generation of kids and collectors alike. While a few will lament not having certain characters made into figures, you cannot argue that the line was not a success.

DCUC is not a failure either, in fact I am surprised that it has gone on this long as I did not expect it to get past Wave 10 the way they started out. Like JLU, DCUC is the larger scale Super Powers Collection taking those characters and adding more detail and articulation to the figures. They have had some odd choices for figures, but over all I would say they have been a success as well.

Mattel did a Batman / Superman centric set of figures just prior to DCUC, it was called DC Super Heroes and it was to be alternating waves of Batman and Superman characters. That was until Mattel botched it and released three successive waves of Superman figures at the same time they had Superman Returns figures hanging on the pegs.

If there was one constant failure Mattel continues to make its figure scale. Just as I loved Corgi doing Batmobiles in 1:43 scale and Hot Wheels doing Batmobiles in 1:50 scale (it should have been 1:43 as well) I really wish that Mattel had two standard scales that they would stick to.

Mattel seems to make each line its own scale, take their original “Animated” line which had figure bucks like Joker, Batgirl and Two-Face used in the JLU line where they were larger than their JLU counterparts.

Then look at Movie Masters which is a little off scale from the original “Comic Book” line of figures that later were used in DCSH and DCUC.

Along the way there were The Batman, a line that had at least three different scales, followed by Batman The Brave and the Bold which was an entirely different scale unto itself. Now we have Young Justice with two different scales and I’m sure The Dark Knight Rises will have a couple different scales of figures too.

Consider how cool it would be if you could have Batman in all is incarnations, comic, film, animated, in the same scale.


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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:32 am 
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FlaBat wrote:
Consider how cool it would be if you could have Batman in all is incarnations, comic, film, animated, in the same scale.

Love it! Simply love the idea!

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:36 am 
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The best thing for DC/Mattel is for WB to get off their butts and get on a Justice League movie as soon as the latest Batman trilogy is over. The Iron Man, Captain America, Thor movies which have now given us the Avengers is why Hasbro is kicking butt. You need the kids in most toylines to be successful.

I'm still hoping for a Marvel Universe type line for DC as that would be amazing but you need to get the kids into the lines somehow. I personally think Marvel Legends was able to return because of the success of the Marvel Universe and movie lines. DC needs that and unfortunately GL bombed.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:12 am 
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The Batman movies have been the best success DC/ Warner has had as far as DC films. But the movie lines seem to go nowhere. Iron Man almost seemed to last from Iron Man I all the way to Iron Man 2 and still going well into Avengers. At least I still see them on the shelves during all that time. Dark Knight came and went and lingered in small remnants of what didn't sell.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:39 am 
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Cause Batman didn't get the kids involved. The movies were too dark which imo made them so good but from a family standpoint, not so much.

DC's flagship team is the Justice League and Mattel needs a blockbuster movie to push the team into mainstream like Hasbro/Marvel has done with Avengers (Again they tried with GL and it bombed). The Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes cartoon out now is right up there with the JLU cartoon imo. It's awesome. DC needs it big guns headlining a cartoon Batman and Superman. It all revolves around those 2 for DC.

Mattel's DC line needs to take a page from what Hasbro has done with Transformers, Gi Joe, Marvel and Star Wars. Blockbuster movie, figures, animated cartoon, figures = massive $$. Get the children into your product.

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 Post subject: Re: Mattel DC Failures Continue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:43 am 
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Fone Bone wrote:
Still doesn't explain why we never got Catwoman, Riddler, or for pity's sake, Dick Grayson Robin. Any Robin would have done but it's hard to fathom why they resisted some of the bigger Batman baddies after the line became all-encompassing. Even characters like Mr. Freeze, Two-Face, Poison Ivy and Ra's Al Ghul got some recognition from the live-action Batman movies and would have made good figures.

Although to be honest, I don't think it would have made the line last any longer. I'm just pettily complaing because I'd rather have those characters than the Superfriends, the JSA or the Doom Patrol.

But seriously, JLU had a great run. Mattel went above and beyond with the line and I don't really have any real complaints left. If they manage to get the prototype Young Justice figures out to the fans via Matty I might reconsider whether or not to finally get into the line.


I won't argue that, I was always pushing for Batman villains but his particular list wasn't "brand" name villains.


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