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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:45 pm 
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ian5555 wrote:
It's not about a Captain Atom figure being a bad selection, you get kids interested in the line and your core characters and then add others to the line. Put pictures of all your figures like a checklist on the back. Kids love that stuff, I know I sure did marking off each Gi Joe or Star Wars figures I got.

Mattel is just limited on what they can do without kids and that is just a fact.


True it's a complete strategy. But that's the thing. I don't think ANYONE is disputing that you need kids to succeed at retail. Anyone will tell you you need the widest customer base possible. What I'm saying is they don't understand HOW to do it. And by alienating one group, you cut your profits in half. But by "declaring" you are for a specific group, yet fail on every level to appeal to them, then NOT learn the real lessons about why, you frustrate BOTH groups.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:15 am 
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AnimateTed wrote:
ian5555 wrote:
It's not about a Captain Atom figure being a bad selection, you get kids interested in the line and your core characters and then add others to the line. Put pictures of all your figures like a checklist on the back. Kids love that stuff, I know I sure did marking off each Gi Joe or Star Wars figures I got.

Mattel is just limited on what they can do without kids and that is just a fact.


True it's a complete strategy. But that's the thing. I don't think ANYONE is disputing that you need kids to succeed at retail. Anyone will tell you you need the widest customer base possible. What I'm saying is they don't understand HOW to do it. And by alienating one group, you cut your profits in half. But by "declaring" you are for a specific group, yet fail on every level to appeal to them, then NOT learn the real lessons about why, you frustrate BOTH groups.


I think someone from the boys' division needs to go over and talk to the Monster High team... They're selling to kids, tween, teens and adults and adult males who otherwise wouldn't be caught dead (no pun intended) purchasing a "fashion doll" for themselves. I can't say that they would know the exact formula for success but they probably have some thoughts that could help...


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:20 am 
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The formula is there, Marvel/Hasbro has already done it. DC will fail with Mattel until they get good quality kid friendly movies with their A listers like Marvel has done. Count on it.

A cartoon just isn't going to get it done these days with Super Heroes. Blockbuster movie (kid friendly) -> Cartoon -> SUCCESS. That is the formula. Ohhh and better articulation and figures could help some too.

I personally think it is hard though as their characters just do not relate to the big screen as well imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:02 am 
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I think for DC they should do a total CGI movie. Not like GL the animated series, but in a serious tone. Like Resident Evil or whatever. I think that would translate the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:59 am 
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bnjmnrlyr wrote:
Its not that anyone here is arguing against having "Mom & Kid" interest, but rather the fact that Mattel seems to think that a line MUST appeal to either the "Mom & Kid" audience or the "collector" audience and never the two shall meet.

People keep putting MU up as an example of a line that draws in both "kids" and "collectors" at the same time.

And I agree, that is truly the best of both worlds and it repeatedly seems to be a world that Mattel just doesn't understand.

They (Mattel) used the GL lines as an example: 4" for the "moms and kids" and 6" for the collector. They stated that the 4" line was purposefully sculpted simply and with limited articulation to maintain a lower price point and stay attractive to the children that the line was "aimed at". Many collectors, myself included, take that as an obvious dismissal. Many collectors were very excited to hear that there would be a 4" GL line and couldn't wait to get them into their collections (especially after Matty told us that this line would show what they had learned from the then recent demise of DCIH). The GL 6" line was then presented as a line for "collectors". Unfortunately, this meant a much higher price point, a more limited audience, and, ultimately, the demise of the line before all the figures necessary for the included CnC were able to hit the market.

Matty absolutely told us several times in several forums that each line was "intended" for a different audience and if the non-target audience didn't like the execution of one they simply had to go and buy the other.

Sorry, that tells me that Matty just doesn't "get it" and that they clearly haven't learned from any of their past mistakes.

So, yeah, I agree that we need to accept that Moms and Kids drive retail lines, but it doesn't need to be so at the exclusion of collectors.

And if Matty tells me one more time that "my collector line" is available for me at Matty.com I will run him over with a bigfoot truck. I want a line a retail that I can buy for myself as a collector and for my son as a player at the same time/place/pricepoint.

Until Matty can do that, they really haven't learned anything (and it seems very clear to me they don't intend to).


This is a good point. I bought none of the GL movie product, but if the movie was half way decent, I could have gotten into the 4" line. I liked the constructs and all, but the limited articulation would have been a deal breaker.

Now I'm a DK Nolan fanatic, I just pre-ordered the Hot Toys Bat Pod last night. I've been furiously grabbing up Movie Masters but won't even go near the 4" line because of again, limited articulation. I'm not buying bright orange Batman or jungle camo Bane regardless, but I would've picked up the core characters.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:26 am 
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Quote:
Q3.  What are those lessons you say you’ve learned from the performance of GL, YJ, Legacy and DCUC at retail?

A3.  Mom and kid interest is essential for a line to succeed at retail. If we want to do a collector only line, you will find that on Mattycollector.com.

Seriously, guys!!! It's our own fault!!!!

Clearly Mattel meant for Green Lantern, Batman Legacy and Young Justice to be Collector Only Lines!!! After all, who among us didn't want "Kermit the Frog" sized GL Rings instead of Power Batteries; Bat-bases & Bat-posters instead of batarangs, whips and assorted weapons; and of course... four different Aqualad repaints!

To paraphrase bnjmnrlyr... Mattel obviously had "only" the Collectors in mind when they designed those lines. From pricing to quality, those lines were a collectors dream come true and we let Mattel down. We are such a disappointment!

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:25 am 
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bnjmnrlyr and red Ricky, consider yourselves promoted! The checks are in the mail!

What they said is truth, plain and simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Jim_Abell wrote:
I think someone from the boys' division needs to go over and talk to the Monster High team... They're selling to kids, tween, teens and adults and adult males who otherwise wouldn't be caught dead (no pun intended) purchasing a "fashion doll" for themselves. I can't say that they would know the exact formula for success but they probably have some thoughts that could help...



A to the M'Fn' MEN!


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:29 am 
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Looks like they are green lighting a Justice League movie again to be written so we'll see if it works this time but that is the ONLY thing that saves DC products for Mattel imo. The "Avengers" formula works. Doing anything else is silly.

Cartoons just do not do it anymore for Super Heroes on a wide scale at retail.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:42 am 
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I'm not sure I buy the "you have to have a ton of live action movies for your toy line to succeed" argument. Maybe Thor, Avengers and Captain America toys sell really well the summer that the movie comes out, but they go on clearance almost immediately after.

The potential is there with DC, but Mattel just doesn't take advantage. DC produces multiple amazing animated movies that moms and kids buy and rent over and over again...which are repeatedly ignored by Mattel.

Historically, you could argue that cartoons produce better action figure sales over a longer period of time than live action movies do (Transformers, G.I. Joe, Superfriends (a.k.a. Super Powers), Batman the Animated Series, JLU...) All of those figures were popular with kids and collectors for at least a decade each.

I'm sorry, but Mattel's choices with DC just don't make sense to me. Overpriced action figures during a recession? Blame the collectors, moms and kids. Poor character choices? Blame the collectors, moms and kids. Ignoring the rich DC Animated Universe? Blame the collectors, moms and kids. Crappy SDCC offerings? At least the moms and kids get spared on this one lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:59 am 
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This isn't the 80's and 90's anymore where cartoons ruled. It's live action now that drives kids not cartoons unless it's Ben-10 or Yu Gi Oh or one of those shows. Something new and fresh the next "big thing". Do you know how many options "kids" have now compared to the 80's and 90's? How many more tv stations there are? Video games? Cartoons for the most part can't compete like they did in the 80's and 90's.

I dunno about you and maybe it's just me but I know alot of kids from friends, family and such and not one of them is remotely interested in any DC product. It's Marvel, Star Wars, Gi Joe and Transformers cause of movies.

You all can continue to live in denial and put all the blame on Mattel all you want but they need customers and that is a fact and live action is the best way to get them, not some cartoon.

And sure Thor toys go on clearance and then they are selling them again when Avengers comes out, and Thor 2 and Avengers 2...see a pattern there?

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Last edited by ian5555 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:09 am 
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ian5555 wrote:
Looks like they are green lighting a Justice League movie again to be written so we'll see if it works this time but that is the ONLY thing that saves DC products for Mattel imo. The "Avengers" formula works. Doing anything else is silly.

I read about this. But MAN, do they have a long row to hoe. Between basically starting from scratch on the most popular character, to needing a really spectacular Superman movie to make people forget about how awful the last one was... Lots of work is needed. And then I read that the writer working on the JL script is, "masterminding reboots for both the Lethal Weapon franchise and the 1970s science-fiction movie Logan's Run."
That does. Not. Sound. Promising.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:20 am 
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There's no way they'll get the Justice League movie right. The very first thing they should do to really get a JL movie off the ground is cancel the upcoming Superman movie and start completely over and they won't do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:42 pm 
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ian5555 wrote:
This isn't the 80's and 90's anymore where cartoons ruled. It's live action now that drives kids not cartoons unless it's Ben-10 or Yu Gi Oh or one of those shows. Something new and fresh the next "big thing". Do you know how many options "kids" have now compared to the 80's and 90's? How many more tv stations there are? Video games? Cartoons for the most part can't compete like they did in the 80's and 90's.

I dunno about you and maybe it's just me but I know alot of kids from friends, family and such and not one of them is remotely interested in any DC product. It's Marvel, Star Wars, Gi Joe and Transformers cause of movies.

You all can continue to live in denial and put all the blame on Mattel all you want but they need customers and that is a fact and live action is the best way to get them, not some cartoon.

And sure Thor toys go on clearance and then they are selling them again when Avengers comes out, and Thor 2 and Avengers 2...see a pattern there?


I do see a pattern. Bruce Timm DC Cartoons have done very well in the toy isles from the 1990's until last year. That's a pretty good run. I also see a pattern of Mattel ignoring Timm produced animated movies. I'm sure you know a lot of kids but is that really proof of anything?

It would be lazy for Mattel, or any other toy company, to think that the only viable toy property would be live action superhero movies. In addition, I find the Marvel movies kind of campy. If I was a Captain America fan I would not be pleased by the way he looked in the Avengers, which is reflected in the toys.

I'm glad DC, guided by Nolan, is now taking a more "real-world" approach to their superheroes. They just feel cooler. If Marvel isn't careful their movies will enter into the silly Battleship and Transformers territory. The Avengers, Iron Man, Thor movies all have an identical generic look to them, which will eventually seem dated. I will patiently wait for DC movies and toys as long as Warner Brothers takes their time to do it right.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:31 am 
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batfink wrote:
I do see a pattern. Bruce Timm DC Cartoons have done very well in the toy isles from the 1990's until last year. That's a pretty good run. I also see a pattern of Mattel ignoring Timm produced animated movies.

That's remembering things through rose-colored glasses, I believe. JLU started tanking back in 2008-2009 and hobbled along for a couple years after. Anyway, the fact remains that the reason that the Timm DC cartoons did well in the toy aisles is because there was a Timm cartoon airing basically nonstop from 1992 through 2006. And the success of the Timm figures was definitely mixed - STAS bombed, Batman Beyond did mediocre, and the Batlink stuff that Hasbro produced? Well, I remember seeing that Batlink Cyber Joker abomination for years because no one bought it.

As for the DTVs, I don't see Hasbro producing toys based on the Marvel ones, either. At least Mattel gave it a shot with Public Enemies. I'd venture that these films are bought by more adults than children, so it's probably not going to generate much in terms of sales.

batfink wrote:
It would be lazy for Mattel, or any other toy company, to think that the only viable toy property would be live action superhero movies. In addition, I find the Marvel movies kind of campy. If I was a Captain America fan I would not be pleased by the way he looked in the Avengers, which is reflected in the toys.

The costume looked kind of silly in “The Avengers,” no doubt, but that’s always an issue, translating a drawing into live action. Something is usually lost. I don’t think that the movies are campy, as much as they are a little self-aware. I think most people go into those movies looking for a bit of escapism, not reality. Sometimes, reality works well (like with Batman, though that also severely limits his villains – no Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat, Clayface, etc.), but it’s also fun to see everything brought to life.
And that’s what the Marvel movies accomplish well. They make the movies accessible to both kids and adults, which is why the toys are selling. “The Dark Knight Rises,” while it will obviously be a success, isn’t as toyetic, and its darker tone and themes will limit its appeal to kids – which will limit the toys’ success.

So that's the double-edged sword of making "realistic" films based on material that was never intended to be realistic in the first place.


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