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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:54 am 
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MoMoney wrote:
So that's the double-edged sword of making "realistic" films based on material that was never intended to be realistic in the first place.


Bingo. Well said.

And Batfink, Avengers is the 3rd highest grossing movie OF ALL TIME. The Marvel Movieverse is doing just fine, thank you very much.

I guess "identical, generic look" is what the people want these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:54 am 
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...until Spider Man dethrones Avengers, and then Dark Knight Rises dethrones both of them. Then the next big thing dethrones that.

I think you guys are misunderstanding me here. I enjoyed Avengers. There were some great geek out moments. Especially the Thor vs. Hulk stuff. But I worry Marvel movies might seem kind of empty after awhile with such a homogenous look and over-reliance on CGI.

Look at the X-Men movies. Did Brett Ratner's X-Men seem silly compared to the other, more realistic, movies? You know, the ones that were based on fantastic ideas but still grounded in reality. I prefer Joe Johnston's Captain America to Joss Wheadon's. It's just personal preference, but I like it when superhero movies are not just CGI and explosions.

We are getting sidetracked here. I stick by my original, relevant point: It would be lazy for Mattel, or any other toy company, to think that the only viable toy properties are live action superhero movies. I think quality live action movies are a great way to support a property, but they are not the only game in town. Otherwise a DC comic line has absolutely no reason to exist either.


Last edited by batfink on Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:29 am 
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batfink wrote:
...until Spider Man dethrones Avengers, and then Dark Knight Rises dethrones both of them. Then the next big thing dethrones that.
.


I would almost stake my toy collection that doesn't happen... (especially since the rumor that they are going to releases a directors cut at the theatres in NOV-- to try and at least take #2 domestic

Personally I have no desire to see either of theses -- and I am a bigger fan of both those characters than most of the Avengers put together, but both of those are DVD watches for me-- (an usually not until they drop into the 10.00 and below Blu Ray bin-- (which is where all of Nolans Batman Movies belong).

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:54 pm 
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stewbacca wrote:
batfink wrote:
...until Spider Man dethrones Avengers, and then Dark Knight Rises dethrones both of them. Then the next big thing dethrones that.
.


I would almost stake my toy collection that doesn't happen... (especially since the rumor that they are going to releases a directors cut at the theatres in NOV-- to try and at least take #2 domestic

Personally I have no desire to see either of theses -- and I am a bigger fan of both those characters than most of the Avengers put together, but both of those are DVD watches for me-- (an usually not until they drop into the 10.00 and below Blu Ray bin-- (which is where all of Nolans Batman Movies belong).


Congrats on being the only person in the universe to think that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:39 pm 
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batfink wrote:
...until Spider Man dethrones Avengers, and then Dark Knight Rises dethrones both of them. Then the next big thing dethrones that.

I think you guys are misunderstanding me here. I enjoyed Avengers. There were some great geek out moments. Especially the Thor vs. Hulk stuff. But I worry Marvel movies might seem kind of empty after awhile with such a homogenous look and over-reliance on CGI.

Look at the X-Men movies. Did Brett Ratner's X-Men seem silly compared to the other, more realistic, movies? You know, the ones that were based on fantastic ideas but still grounded in reality. I prefer Joe Johnston's Captain America to Joss Wheadon's. It's just personal preference, but I like it when superhero movies are not just CGI and explosions.

We are getting sidetracked here. I stick by my original, relevant point: It would be lazy for Mattel, or any other toy company, to think that the only viable toy properties are live action superhero movies. I think quality live action movies are a great way to support a property, but they are not the only game in town. Otherwise a DC comic line has absolutely no reason to exist either.


I would agree with your point BUT it starts with a Live Action Movie and then they can build on that with cartoons imo. Walk into any Wal-mart, JC Penney, Target or any big retail store with clothes and other merchandise geared towards kids and there is marvel stuff everywhere and that is because of one thing, a kid friendly blockbuster movie and Dark Knight doesn't fit the bill.

You can't walk down the isle in a Wal-mart without tripping over Avenger and Marvel fruit snacks, cereal, lunchboxes, t-shirts, and on and on and on. The amount of interest a movie does for merchandising just DWARFS any cartoon these days. That is just a fact. Marvel has a comic line with MU and that was successful way before the Avengers cartoon came out. I see no reason why Mattel and DC can't use that formula but it all hinges on a JL movie imo.

CGI is the best thing that prolly happened for movies imo. It gave them so many more options. We all love Lou Ferrigno (sp?) as the Hulk but I'd take the CGI one any day of the week. Spider-man and Dark Knight aren't touching Avengers. At $1.3 Billion worldwide, good luck is all I have to say :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:54 pm 
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I dunno, I'd still take the Lou Hulk in my own opinion. Until The Avengers I don't think CGI has done the Hulk justice. Which I guess is Third Times the Charm.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:21 pm 
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stewbacca wrote:
batfink wrote:
...until Spider Man dethrones Avengers, and then Dark Knight Rises dethrones both of them. Then the next big thing dethrones that.
.


I would almost stake my toy collection that doesn't happen... (especially since the rumor that they are going to releases a directors cut at the theatres in NOV-- to try and at least take #2 domestic

Personally I have no desire to see either of theses -- and I am a bigger fan of both those characters than most of the Avengers put together, but both of those are DVD watches for me-- (an usually not until they drop into the 10.00 and below Blu Ray bin-- (which is where all of Nolans Batman Movies belong).

That directors cut will have a continuation of the discussion with the Hulk and Harry Dean Stanton in it.He explains how Bruce is in control,not the Hulk.It is a pivotal scene that should have been in the movie.
I thought it strange how Hulk just decided to help the group fight the bad guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:01 am 
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j1h15233 wrote:
stewbacca wrote:
I would almost stake my toy collection that doesn't happen... (especially since the rumor that they are going to releases a directors cut at the theatres in NOV-- to try and at least take #2 domestic

Personally I have no desire to see either of theses -- and I am a bigger fan of both those characters than most of the Avengers put together, but both of those are DVD watches for me-- (an usually not until they drop into the 10.00 and below Blu Ray bin-- (which is where all of Nolans Batman Movies belong).


Congrats on being the only person in the universe to think that.

To think what? That both "The Amazing Spider-Man" and "The Dark Knight Rises" won't beat "The Avengers" at the box office, or that the Nolan films suck?

I agree with the former but couldn't disagree more with the latter.

And while, yes, relying solely on a film to release toys might not be the wisest move for any company, it's also been proven a few times over the past few years that a cartoon just isn't enough for any company. How about those "Wolverine & the X-Men" toys? Or the non-existent Avengers cartoon toys?


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:41 am 
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MoMoney wrote:
j1h15233 wrote:

Congrats on being the only person in the universe to think that.

To think what? That both "The Amazing Spider-Man" and "The Dark Knight Rises" won't beat "The Avengers" at the box office, or that the Nolan films suck?

I agree with the former but couldn't disagree more with the latter.

And while, yes, relying solely on a film to release toys might not be the wisest move for any company, it's also been proven a few times over the past few years that a cartoon just isn't enough for any company. How about those "Wolverine & the X-Men" toys? Or the non-existent Avengers cartoon toys?


I agree with Mo here.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:11 am 
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I'm pretty sure J1's comment was just about the dig in the last line on Nolan's Batman films.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:43 am 
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comicbookreader wrote:
That directors cut will have a continuation of the discussion with the Hulk and Harry Dean Stanton in it.He explains how Bruce is in control,not the Hulk.

But that development wouldn't explain why he would go after Scarlett. Hulk horny?

And the new, explanation... the one he used to trigger the last change... well, that just made me wonder why Bruce Banner doesn't just smoke weed. Lots and lots of weed!!!

I hear it's legal in California. :twisted:

As for the topic at hand...

I think it's silly to believe there's a Magic Formula for a successful line, or that all you need is a Summer Blockbuster Movie. It's not quite that easy. There's a lot of steering involved and when it comes to boy Action Figures... Hasbro just does it better.

Their distribution is better.

They keep their inventories, tight.

And when sales lag, they adjust their prices.

They also keep their development costs low, and don't waste too much money. Which was the case with Iron Man, Thor, Captain America and The Avengers. Meaning that instead of developing FOUR different lines (with four different scales), they simply "expanded" their existing Marvel Universe line. No Money got wasted on account that, if any figure got "canceled", or was left unproduced... the tooling costs and developing expenses could be "recouped" by folding it back into the Marvel Universe line (and/or the Avengers line.)

Mattel has done the opposite with Batman and Green Lantern. Instead of having 3 brands that are compatible with each other; they have 3 lines that are incompatible.

In the case of Green Lantern, they had the Classics; the movie Masters; and the 4" inch figures. All incompatible with each other; two of which resulted in money for figures and waves that were developed, but not fully recouped.

In the case of Batman, the have the Legacy/Classics figures; the Arkham City Figures; and the Movie Masters figures. Three different lines, three different scales. Five if you count the 4" inch series and Power Attack stuff.

The thing is... with video games, sports and other forms of entertainment... there aren't that many people collecting action figures. So basicallly, Mattel is splitting a limited market into very small segments. None big enough to survive on its own based on the fact that not many kids, parents and collectors branch out for more than one or two lines.

Hasbro on the other hand, basically has one main line that they rebrand; and to which "most" if not all of their consumers are directed. And sure, they have some 6" inch figures. But currently, that's just a small portion of their market. Most of their traffic is directed towards the 4" inch stuff; and handleling/splitting purchases between 2 lines is not the same as splitting the pie fiveways.

Not the same.

Now, I know some of you are deadset on believing that a Movie will fix things, but Movies (even one about the Justice League) can fail. And Mattel has had the license to plenty of Blockbuster Films, and in my humble opinion, they haven't done that well with them, either.

At the top of my head I remember them putting out action figure lines based on Avatar, Harry Potter, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Which I believe are four of the top grossing films of all time.

Furthermore, I would argue that their biggest success in the Movie figure business, came by way of Toy Story and Cars. The thing is... technically speaking, those aren't action figure lines. I think they are meant for a younger audience.

So like I said, there's no formula. The trick is to play smarter and try to keep costs low through better planning.

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Last edited by red Ricky on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:21 am 
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red Ricky wrote:
But that development wouldn't explain why he would go after Scarlett. Hulk horny?

If they've taken influence from the Ultimates that is exactly it! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:27 am 
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xrmc20 wrote:
I'm pretty sure J1's comment was just about the dig in the last line on Nolan's Batman films.


Yes it was. I actually don't think Batman will pass Avengers, but that doesn't mean it won't be very successful. My comment was about the Nolan Batman movies sucking. I don't think I've ever heard anyone else say that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:45 am 
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I've seen a few J1. For some, the Nolan Batverse just isn't their cup of tea. I don't get it, but hey it takes all kinds.

As far as the Avengers movie, I'm all for a rerelease with a director's cut. I'd really really like for it to knock that stupid movie that shall not be named out of the number two spot.

And I can tell you, right now it's Avengers. The stores stock it and it sells through. The Batman stuff is sitting. Period. Will that change some when the movie comes out? Possibly. But I can tell you that at least around her, the Avengers stuff was selling way before the movie hit.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Mattel for June 1st!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:44 pm 
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red Ricky wrote:

In the case of Batman, the have the Legacy/Classics figures; the Arkham City Figures; and the Movie Masters figures. Three different lines, three different scales. Five if you count the 4" inch series and Power Attack stuff.


This is a really good point. I think mattel should only offer (for DKR) Movie Masters, the 4" inch action figures, and some vehicles and playsets for those figures...that's it. One line for collectors, one for kids. Everything else is just a distraction.


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