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 Post subject: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Bob Vila
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The Knightfall story arc ran from 1993 to 1994 so next year through to 2014 will be the anniversary of this great story. It introduced Bane, and had some of the best character designs for some of the most prominent Bat family characters. So here is my idea for Mattel to cash in on it, celebrate the anniversary and bring us some of the figures we've been asking for:

Az-Bats version 1
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Balent Catwoman
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2nd costume Nightwing
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Classic Tim Drake Robin (new sculpt on the small teen buck)
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And to top it all off, a new Bane with Venom feature. My idea is that they make a new Bane on a smaller scale than the CnC, so it's more accurate in height and size than the wave 16 one. But to seal the deal they tool the chest piece to be similar in concept to the Plastic Man one.
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If they had the torso made to have the same button at the back to allow the arms to be popped out, then you could swap in some larger veined venom arms and then snap on a bulky/venomed up chest and back piece over the top. (similar to the Battle armour chest pieces on the MOUTC He-Man/Skeletor)

Or, if that seems like too much effort just do two versions of the upper body and arms that can be popped on and swapped onto the waist like with MOTUC King Hiss.

It would be a great use of the Bat sub line, or could be a set unto itself. And the redo of Bane would likely sell to those unhappy with the height of the first one, and to those happy with that one but that like the idea of having the option of regular and venomed up looks. Plus with Bane now being in the public consciousness thanks to TDKR, it could work at retail as an assortment.

What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:42 am 
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Bob Vila
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Anyone??


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:27 am 
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I'm in. Especially for a Balent Catwoman and a correct costume Tim, but I'd prefer him on one of the large teen bucks.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:44 am 
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Armored Avenger of Arduous Aspirations
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Not a fan of that version of Nightwing's costume.

With ya on Tim and Selena, however. Those are, hands down, my favorite costumes for Catwoman and the third Robin.

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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:37 am 
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I'd take a complete set -- just as long as the Horsemen take note of the fact that the Balent Catwoman costume doesn't have high heels. It still annoys me that DC Direct's sculptors screwed up their version of that figure.

Maybe they could even throw in the Mad Hatter, the Ventriloquist, Firefly or some other frequently requested villain who appeared in the series.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:52 am 
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Bob Vila
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tanglevine wrote:
I'm in. Especially for a Balent Catwoman and a correct costume Tim, but I'd prefer him on one of the large teen bucks.


See I don't get why people want early career Tim drake Robin on an older teen buck. To me, the way Mattel should have done it is have original costume Tim on the small teen buck, and One year Later and Red Robin versions on the Older Legion buck to show that he has got older.

Same goes for Superboy. The Reign of the Superman version should have been on the smaller teen buck, so that the T-Shirt and jeans version could go on the older teen buck.

Each to their own I guess, but for me the bucks are there to show each stage of a character, so they should be used as such. Oh, and the Balent Catwoman definitely needs to have flat feet and no heels, again it's not like they don't have those sculpted already. One of my biggest gripes with Mattel (and possibly the 4H as they do the sculpting) is that they don't look at the parts they have and use them correctly where appropriate.

I mean if they do a T-shirt Superboy, they should use the upper legs and waist from Captain Cold with older teen chest and arms, so as to not make him too tall, but I bet they re-use Jack Knight Starman and make him too tall.

Oh, and yeah while the Nightwing costume from that time may not be his best, he's such a core character we should get that and his first costume IMO in the line.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:26 am 
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elvis8batman wrote:
To me, the way Mattel should have done it is have original costume Tim on the small teen buck, and One year Later and Red Robin versions on the Older Legion buck to show that he has got older.


I don't think it was a bad choice of bucks (considering the buck was completely new in wave 3) as it was mis-tooling. I think the wave three Robin was supposed to be bigger, just like Sinestro, but the factory doing the tooling got the scaling wrong. The good that came out of it was that Sinestro did become the "older teen" body and Tim was available for even younger heroes though I do think Kid Flash was a complete mis-use of that body...

elvis8batman wrote:
Same goes for Superboy. The Reign of the Superman version should have been on the smaller teen buck, so that the T-Shirt and jeans version could go on the older teen buck.


Have to disagree on that... Since Superbody doesn't age I feel that all versions of Kon-El should use the same scale body. I do agree that Captain Cold's pelvis and thighs could be used, but perhaps Kamandi's pelvis would work better since it actually has jeans with a belt.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:31 am 
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Bob Vila
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Jim_Abell wrote:
elvis8batman wrote:
To me, the way Mattel should have done it is have original costume Tim on the small teen buck, and One year Later and Red Robin versions on the Older Legion buck to show that he has got older.


I don't think it was a bad choice of bucks (considering the buck was completely new in wave 3) as it was mis-tooling. I think the wave three Robin was supposed to be bigger, just like Sinestro, but the factory doing the tooling got the scaling wrong. The good that came out of it was that Sinestro did become the "older teen" body and Tim was available for even younger heroes though I do think Kid Flash was a complete mis-use of that body...

elvis8batman wrote:
Same goes for Superboy. The Reign of the Superman version should have been on the smaller teen buck, so that the T-Shirt and jeans version could go on the older teen buck.


Have to disagree on that... Since Superbody doesn't age I feel that all versions of Kon-El should use the same scale body. I do agree that Captain Cold's pelvis and thighs could be used, but perhaps Kamandi's pelvis would work better since it actually has jeans with a belt.


Good call on the Kamandi pelvis Jim, that slipped my mind. I always thought Superboy was the age of 16 when his cryo chamber got busted, as he was meant to be in it till he grew to adult size to replace Supes. I never knew that he was meant to stay at at that age. I thought he was aging now as he always looks bigger and older when drawn in the T-shirt and jeans.

And I agree that the tools were messed up for wave 3 hence the smaller than planned bucks for Robin and Sinestro. But it did turn out a happy accident as you say as it did give us the older teen buck from Sinestro.

But I like the idea of having a small buck for sidekicks at the start of their career, a larger older teen buck for later in their career and then adult bucks for when they step out of their sidekick role.

That way we could have a small Golden Age Robin, the wave 16 Perez Titans Robin, then the adult Nightwing. I like the way we can see characters grow through the years, and having kid, teen and adult bucks allows for this.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:46 am 
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elvis8batman wrote:
That way we could have a small Golden Age Robin, the wave 16 Perez Titans Robin, then the adult Nightwing. I like the way we can see characters grow through the years, and having kid, teen and adult bucks allows for this.



I agree. It bugs the hell out of me that the 10-year-old Golden Age Robin and the 18-year-old Bronze Age Robin use the same body.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:27 pm 
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I advocate for use of the larger teen buck for all of the DC teens because I hate the original teen buck. The arms are too big, IMO. I wish they'd redo Tim, Kid Flash and Beast boy on the larger teen buck. At least I'd feel like I had a complete New Teen Titans team and a proper Robin III that way. To each his own I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:25 am 
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Bob Vila
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tanglevine wrote:
I advocate for use of the larger teen buck for all of the DC teens because I hate the original teen buck. The arms are too big, IMO. I wish they'd redo Tim, Kid Flash and Beast boy on the larger teen buck. At least I'd feel like I had a complete New Teen Titans team and a proper Robin III that way. To each his own I suppose.


While I can see your point in re-doing Kid Flash, Beast boy and the Wave 3 Robin on the older teen buck, I would still like to see the original Teen titans team filled out on the smaller buck and then older Perez versions done on the Legion buck. But I agree that the biceps on the small teen buck are too bulky, but if just those were re-done the small buck would look much better.

It does make me wonder how they'll approach doing a Damian Wane Robin. After all he is smaller than Tim and Dick were when they became Robin, so would they create an entirely new buck just for him, due to his size and sculpted details?


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:14 am 
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I don't get that worked up about scale unless it's really obvious (Red Robin is clearly too big). I liked the small buck and the Legion buck. Give me an Aqualad on the small one and a Tempest on the Legion one and I'll be good to go.

As far as Damian goes, I really HATE that character. Hopefully I can avoid him completely as he's probably too high profile for the sub. My Robins end with Tim. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:09 pm 
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elvis8batman wrote:
tanglevine wrote:
I'm in. Especially for a Balent Catwoman and a correct costume Tim, but I'd prefer him on one of the large teen bucks.


See I don't get why people want early career Tim drake Robin on an older teen buck. To me, the way Mattel should have done it is have original costume Tim on the small teen buck, and One year Later and Red Robin versions on the Older Legion buck to show that he has got older.

If that's the case (and please don't shoot the messenger), then as far as Mattel goes, they already gave you what you wanted. Yes, I know it's not what you really wanted. But as far as they usually go, this particular set closed that case...

Image

Yeah, they are sloppy like that. Which is sad because they had (and still have) all the tools necessary to give the fans what we really wanted/want.

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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Bob Vila
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Quote:
red Ricky wrote:
See I don't get why people want early career Tim drake Robin on an older teen buck. To me, the way Mattel should have done it is have original costume Tim on the small teen buck, and One year Later and Red Robin versions on the Older Legion buck to show that he has got older.

If that's the case (and please don't shoot the messenger), then as far as Mattel goes, they already gave you what you wanted. Yes, I know it's not what you really wanted. But as far as they usually go, this particular set closed that case...

Image

Yeah, they are sloppy like that. Which is sad because they had (and still have) all the tools necessary to give the fans what we really wanted/want.[/quote]

See now that's the right scale for all early career Robin figures. If they were to just re-do that version on that buck with the necessary newly tooled parts ( shoulders, biceps, chest, belt, shins, feet, gauntlets and cut the scalopes from the cape or fill in that part of the tool ) we would have a perfect first appearance Tim Drake Robin. It's not unheard of for them to do a Sam Beckett 'and put right what once went wrong' I mean just look at Sinestro and blue face Harley. That version of Tim as Robin is still to this day used on merchandising and other licenced products so it's definitely one that would sell at retail.


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 Post subject: Re: 20th anniversary of the Knightfall saga...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:48 am 
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Put me down for a Balent Catwoman and a teen-buck Tim Drake redo as well. Both are major names that could easily be put into the Batman Unlimited line.


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