For the most part I just haven't enjoyed his stories (outside of the JLA, which I did enjoy).

I absolutely hated Batman R.I.P. It almost turned me off of reading Batman all together.

1. In the current Nu52 Universe... no comics matter. Or they all matter. Or you can pick & choose. Which means Kingdom happened... didn't happened... or just the good parts happened (like Offspring.)

2. Kingdom Come was Alex Ross baby. Kingdom was Mark Waid's. There is a difference between the two and it shows.

3. Kingdom Come has a lot of substance. If the only thing you got out of it was a big battle, you missed out. And just to touch on a couple of themes... there are morality issues (might makes right) and father/son themes (such as the sons assuming the roles of their fathers across the board.) Really, there is a lot of subtext beyond the pretty pictures. From Clark becoming a farmer to Bruce's makeshift M.A.S.H. unit, there was a lot of thought put into that series.

4. I think people are entitled to their opinion and I understand if all they saw was an end of the world story and/or swan song. But in reality, the story was a reflection of the status of super-heroics at the time; and how fans were celebrating amorality & violence over virtue & values.

5. Kingdom Come gave us Magog. The Kingdom gave us Gog. That version of Gog didn't last as it was revealed that Magog drew his powers from the Jack Kirby Gog (precursor to Darkseid.)

6. Before Kingdom Come, the only time Batman's body had been broken was during Knight Fall, by Bane. So it made sense for him to wear the Exo. Don't recall too many stories where has a broken body; unless you're talking about Batman Beyond... where he's 90 years old... and can still kick Jokerzz @$$.

7. Wonder Woman was never Batman's girl. That was a JLU/Bruce Timm love connection. Which came after Kingdom Come had been published. Before then, the forbidden romance had been between Superman & Wonder Woman (see Action Comics #600 & DC Presents #32) or read… http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=40724

8. Grant Morrison has his ups & downs. When he is into a story, it can be very good. But when he isn’t, or loses interest along the way, he can be very bad. All-Star Superman is an example of this.

9. I like Roy Thomas, but halfway through his All-Star run, he got more concerned about where the stories fit “continuity wise.”

10. I wouldn’t recommend America vs. The JSA. It has its moments, but if you are bothered by Batman’s broken body, you are going to hate this story. I’d recommend “The Golden Age” instead. It’s accurate to the politics of the time, and if you can accept the modern premise of a man in a white gorilla’s body… you’ll enjoy this story.

She blew him off in Action 600 and Wonder Woman 16
Superman was into her for sure but she... not so much.
According to Blackest Night, Bruce was Wonder Woman's true love. yeah yeah it doesn't matter any more but neither does this new garbage.

And what is with Ricky's use of that stupid flooving picture every time he needs to make a rebuttal?

Every time? Really?

Sensitive much?

Anyways, I didn't read Blackest Night, but you kinda proved my point. You can't expect a comic from 1995 to adhere to an idea that came 10 years later.

If you say so

No Ricky... you're thinking of Final Night... that was published in 1996...

Blackest Night was the you know... Black Lanterns...

You said Blackest Night.

Okay... what's the 1995 comment mean then? I thought you were confusing the two stories. Because Blackest Night sure wasn't published in '95.

Kingdom Come was published in 1996. Blackest Night was published a few years ago. Ricky's argument is that you can't expect Kingdom Come to adhere to a plot element from a comic that came out 10+ years later.

So...anybody got any fun pictures to share?

One of your complaints about Kingdom Come is that Wonder Woman hooks up with Superman. You said she's supposed to be Batman's girl. Well, back in 1995-1996, the possibility of her hookin' up with Batman had not been explored. More often than not, she would cheat (on Steve Trevor) with Superman.

JLU and Bruce Timm were the first ones to examine the possibility of a Bats/WW romance; and as a result, you can't fault Kingdom Come for not foreseeing it. It's like "not liking" The Dark Knight Returns 'cause it failed to incorporate Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown and Damien.

At the time, the idea of Batman failing to protect a Robin was so shocking that it made sense for him to retire after the loss. Then, like everything else that's good, it got beaten to the ground up to the point where, now-a-days, the Batcave has as many Robin Memorials as it has Batmobiles.

You twisted my arm!

Oh, you meant about toys! Oops!
(But you got to admit, it's kinda funny that Bruce has an empty display case "already set up" for the next Robin who falls.)

Best thing you said.

You know, it's funny... I know my dates very well but things like The Obsidian Age, which was around the time JLA explored the Batman/ Wonder Woman relationship was published in 2002-2003 around that time yet I always want to say it's in the later 90's. I guess I'm getting old.

Which brings me to Dark Knight Returns... wasn't that a year or two before Death in a Family? But there is a Robin memorial in the cave or am I just mixing memories again?

So new debate...
Lex Luthor
Buisness Man, President or Super Genius Criminal on the run and in hiding?
What's your favorite?

What comic and issue is that picture from?

That's from part 2 of RIP Batman 677 if I had to guess
Maybe not... but that looks like Jezebel Jet behind him.