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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:46 am 
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I have to agree on a point here, very strongly:
I thought that the character selection for the 30th sub was poor. It should not have consisted of made up characters, but classic selections from the cartoon, mini comics, etc. I wouldn't even has been mad if they'd made a classic he-man that could hold the sword up above his head, and added clear rubbery energy bolts that clipped on to it to simulate the "I HAVE THE POWERRRR!" Moment.
To me, that would've been more appropriate to celebrate the 30th anniversary.


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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:51 am 
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Why? wrote:
Jim_Abell wrote:

And where have they raised the price for the original batch of pre-orders?...


I don't recall ever saying they did. But they did raise the price of the castle to $275. And Neitlich said IF they sell it day of it will be around $300. The basic strategy behind the price increase, besides greed... was to push people to pre-order before the price hike and to prevent people from cancelling prematurely, while at the same time raising the price of an item that has clearly been cost reduced as is continuing to be further reduced. Cutting back on a product while increasing the price is immoral.


No, it's not. It's good business sense.

Mattel isn't going to lose money on this. That's not fair to the shareholders.

If you don't like it, cancel your pre-order. I really don't get the problem here.

And for the record, I didn't buy it because I'm not that big of a MOTU fan and I don't have a place to put it anyway (same reason why I don't have the BMF).

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:02 am 
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Why? wrote:
If using the fine print as a legal excuse to make it smaller, remove accessories, ect... while raising the price even more sounds kosher to you... then I don't know what to tell ya' LOL! I'm no lawyer... but what they are doing with this castle and how they have sold it is borderline criminal IMO.

It would be criminal if they said, "Okay, look, here's what the castle will look like - its measurements will definitely be X x Y x Z exactly" and then revealed it as being five inches shorter in all dimensions and painted pink.

They hammered home the point about it being a work-in-progress and nothing had been set in stone ad nauseaum, so there's nothing "criminal" about it. As Captain Collector said, we got a peek behind the curtain here, and Mattel oversharing (to collectors that demand more transparency and want to know what is going on at all times) is biting them in the ass, as usual.


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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:10 am 
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It is true many fans are complaining about the play set not being as big as the mock-up and not matching the b-sheet. I'm guilty of it myself, but trying to prove that, is futile due to their wording in the description. Unfortunately, all the fine print and subtle semantics when describing the castle during the pre order is protecting them... We, the fans who KNOW its too small don't have a leg to stand on debate wise because of all the semantics. Even on here, people are defending Mattel, saying it was all written out for us... they didn't trick us... they didn't hide anything from us. ok, technically that may be true, especially from a legal stand point... they have their angles covered in writing. I can't argue with that.
But from the view point of a person who has common sense can clearly see that all the semantics gives them that loop hole to do what they did. They said it was subject to change, so they took advantage of that and made Castle Grayskull the bare minimum for a 7" line. That doesn't make it right... they are just legally allowed to get away with it. It isn't enough for Mattel to make a profit from this castle, they have to MAXIMIZE that profit, even if it means giving the consumers less and charging more. The truth is, and people can deny it all they want... Mattel is the evil, greedy corporation that fans make it out to be. Otherwise, they would have made a perfectly sized castle with all the trimmings... instead of a new castle for the vintage figures. :(

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:18 am 
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MoMoney wrote:

They hammered home the point about it being a work-in-progress and nothing had been set in stone ad nauseaum, so there's nothing "criminal" about it.


Which is why I said "borderline" criminal.

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:21 am 
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Shellhead wrote:


If you don't like it, cancel your pre-order. I really don't get the problem here.


If you think like a consumer/customer.. you will understand the problem. Business and dollar signs and having a corporate mentality tend to get in the way.

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:32 am 
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Why? wrote:
Mattel is the evil, greedy corporation that fans make it out to be. Otherwise, they would have made a perfectly sized castle with all the trimmings... instead of a new castle for the vintage figures. :(

If they found out that making the castle "perfectly sized" would end up adding $100 to the pricetag (just throwing numbers out here, I don't know exactly what it would have entailed), they'd have to start the process all over again and do another preorder, because the contract that the buyers agreed to was for Price A, not Price A + $100.

They are not a benevolent company. I don't think anyone here would say that. They're out to make money, and they're not going to make money by charging $275 for a castle that cost that much to produce. It's not logical.


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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:42 am 
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Why? wrote:
I don't recall ever saying they did. But they did raise the price of the castle to $275. And Neitlich said IF they sell it day of it will be around $300. The basic strategy behind the price increase, besides greed... was to push people to pre-order before the price hike and to prevent people from cancelling prematurely, while at the same time raising the price of an item that has clearly been cost reduced as is continuing to be further reduced. Cutting back on a product while increasing the price is immoral.


And without pushing a pre-order the thing would never get made. The bean counters need to know that a certain amount of these things are going to be sold and that the money invested in it is going to be made back. The price hasn't been increased for any of us who pre-ordered because $250 was the price we agreed to. $275 was the next price and whoever may have ordered then knew that going in, just the same as anyone buying on day-of-sale is going to know that the price is $300 or whatever it ends up being if they do sell them that way. The way I look at it is that the extra money that might be made on the second batch of orders will *hopefully* keep anything else from being cut.


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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:52 am 
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Why? wrote:
It isn't enough for Mattel to make a profit from this castle, they have to MAXIMIZE that profit, even if it means giving the consumers less and charging more. The truth is, and people can deny it all they want... Mattel is the evil, greedy corporation that fans make it out to be.(


:roll:

Do you even understand how economics work?

Every company is trying to maximize profit. Those that don't tend to go bankrupt. I own stock in many companies. If they aren't maximizing profits, I'm going to be upset.

I guess that makes me evil and greedy. :lol:

Now watch, next year when TPTB tell Scott not to reveal any information about works in progress, these same people will be complaining about how Mattel's keeping them in the dark. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Shellhead wrote:
Why? wrote:
It isn't enough for Mattel to make a profit from this castle, they have to MAXIMIZE that profit, even if it means giving the consumers less and charging more. The truth is, and people can deny it all they want... Mattel is the evil, greedy corporation that fans make it out to be.(


:roll:

Do you even understand how economics work?

Every company is trying to maximize profit. Those that don't tend to go bankrupt. I own stock in many companies. If they aren't maximizing profits, I'm going to be upset.

I guess that makes me evil and greedy. :lol:

Now watch, next year when TPTB tell Scott not to reveal any information about works in progress, these same people will be complaining about how Mattel's keeping them in the dark. :roll:


Do you even read what I type? They maximize profits, WHILE reducing the overall quality of the product. How is that a good thing? I don't expect anyone looking at this from a stock holder or managerial view point to agree because they would more than likely hold the same ideals as Mattel.

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Shellhead wrote:
Do you even understand how economics work?

The thing about Mattel is that one day they are wearing their charity hat and saying things like "please support the line" or "the line can't continue without your subscription"; and the next day it's things like "we are a business and we need to maximize profits." And I'm fine with either one. But you know... some integrity would be nice. Like, if you are going to beg & plead for the fans support, don't make promises & stuff... and if you do make them out of desperation... then, at the very least, try not to backpedal on them. 'Cause you know... that's like a "social contract". And maybe it's the way I do business and stuff, but I always figure that the best way to reward customer support, loyalty and goodwill, is to be fair & just in pricing.

Basically, it's the whole Game Theory Economics approach. That is... a greater good can be achieved by businesses & clients working together as opposed to working selfishly. Or as Russell Crowe put it... ignoring the blonde and asking out the brunette.

'Cause here's the thing... If you take the profit maximation approach... if you charge people $27 dollars for an old figure that was costed-out to maximize profits at $20 dollars... if you cut corners, lower quality and generally ask for more money in order to give out less product... you achieve very short-sighted, short-term profit gains that more often than not, will result in your brand's demise.

Now, I don't know enough to say whether or not Mattel is doing this. But if the perception is such... and customers go on the defensive... then you'll start to see more and more of them come up with their own "profit maximization" schemes. You know... like going to Ebay if the figures start showing up without any weapons or packaging. Or making frivolous exchanges at Mattel's expense. Or waiting for customer service stock to be sold at a discount. Or waiting for when places like Ollie's & Marshalls start getting Mattel's excess stock. Etc.

Honestly, no one wins in an economic war just as no one wins in a regular war. If Mattel wants people to be generous with their wallets, trust in them and sign up for subscriptions & stuff "sight unseen"; then they need to look like they are being fair with their pricing. Otherwise, customers will feel free to come up with ways to force Mattel's hand... to play chicken with the line... to have their cake and eat it too.

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:27 pm 
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red Ricky wrote:

Honestly, no one wins in an economic war just as no one wins in a regular war. .



I wont start this discussion here- because Ill leave this as a MOTUC thread -but if it was possible to disagree with this statement more than 100% I would, there is always a winner if it is carried out correctly, especially if you dont value human life as much as someone else does..

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:19 pm 
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stewbacca wrote:
... there is always a winner if it is carried out correctly, especially if you dont value human life as much as someone else does.

ROTFLOL!!!

Just make sure you have a well hidden Villa in South America.
You know... in case you don't win the war.

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Bonus:...Starfire, Steppenwolf w/Desaad, the Joker's Jokerz


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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:27 pm 
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You were going along pretty well there until you made the war statement, Ricky. You can win wars. We won WWI, WWII, the Civil War, and Revolutionary War, for example.

Now, if you meant wars tend to cause a lot of collateral damage, then I'm with you. :wink:

Look, I don't disagree that Mattel have been sending some mixed messages lately, but some collectors have a massive entitlement perspective, almost as if Mattel should only break even on massive products like this one. It's just dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: MOTU Classics discussion
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Captain Collector wrote:
The real difference here is that we're being given a peek behind the curtain, and we're not appreciatin it nearly enough.


Good point! I like this way so much better than the old days, when products just showed up on retail shelves. Reveals help build anticipation. Mattel is a very large corporation, and it's not perfect, but at least it is trying to connect with the fan base, which is a niche market.


Shellhead wrote:
Every company is trying to maximize profit. Those that don't tend to go bankrupt. I own stock in many companies. If they aren't maximizing profits, I'm going to be upset.


Well said. We live in a capitalist society, and that's how our economy works. For Mattel, shareholders come first.

Mattel is a business, and it has no obligation to give adult toy collectors a break on price. It already has a charity, the Mattel Children's Foundation, which helps underserved children. The last time I checked, fanboys were not recipients of the foundation's aid.

No one is being forced to buy this play set. I'll admit that I am disappointed by the cutbacks, but I'm still on board with my preorder. I think Mattel has been more than fair about revealing the reductions as the process moves forward.


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